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  #151 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 09:52 AM
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Its simple...Advertising is not allowed in these forums...under the guise of trying to find a charity ( how low can you get) they spammed these boards with advertising. They were asked to apoligize and they chose not to...so now they have to pay the price. Also they are portraying a very bad image of Hotrodders and Hotrodding.
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  #152 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 10:25 AM
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 11:04 AM
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Im loving this, we hadnt had such an involved thread since Sway's true personality got covered up
Haha, after posting this on the Ol Skool Rodz forum, 66GMCkid (NOTACHAINER) went to the youngrodderz and they have now set a goal to email all the sites that we're posting this in and asking them to delete it. Think they're 20 members can keep up against ours?????


Mike

Last edited by Nightfire; 08-26-2006 at 11:28 AM.
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightfire
Im loving this, we hadnt had such an involved thread since Sway's true personality got covered up
Haha, after posting this on the Ol Skool Rodz forum, 66GMCkid (NOTACHAINER) went to the youngrodderz and they have now set a goal to email all the sites that we're posting this in and asking them to delete it. Think they're 20 members can keep up against ours?????


Mike
Please Mike, don't use simple logic to back up your argument, it's unfair and mean of us!
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 11:40 AM
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Im sorry Classix, I almost forgot what age group we're dealing with


Mike

Last edited by Nightfire; 08-26-2006 at 01:03 PM.
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 12:06 PM
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Its simple...Advertising is not allowed in these forums...under the guise of trying to find a charity ( how low can you get)
Now this wouldn't really be a bad thing if they were truely doing to help a worthwhile charity and not spamming boards to try to market themselves and that pic and rod. Not my cup of tea, isn't that the polite way to say it Henry? I didn't even watch the video that got everyone wound up, my computer is too slow for that stuff. Now if it was hotrodders members getting together to build a car for a worthwhile cause it would be a good thing. Least you know it would be legit and wouldn't go around spamming boards to promote. And I sure hope we wouldn't see any pics of Jon and Centerline in speedo's.
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 01:44 PM
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What's up?

Saturday afternoon August 26, 2006

Dear Jonathan,

I just watch your video. You seem pretty proud of it. You mention in your email that we have not responded to you, so you assume,Ö. Actually your below email dated August 25 is the first I have seen from you. Sorry if it was misdirected or something.

Your parody video is creative and absolutely incorrect. Your video mentions Coker Tire. Coker Tire Company does not have a relationship with Gas Monkey Garage, never done business with them nor have I ever even met this Richard or seen their video you refer to. My brother, David Coker is not an employee of Coker Tire. He has a billet aluminum style wheel company called Newstalgia Wheel, which is also headquartered here in Chattanooga. He is a fine man, runs a fine business and I absolutely do not think you are fair in your representations of him. It looks like my brother just had these guys build a car for him! Explain the crime?!?

Maybe you have some issues with this Richard guy, but making my family or my company the theme of your slam at someone else is not cool. I also think it is down right wrong, probably steps over the legal line too. You correctly indicate, it takes years, and lots of hard work to build a reputation for quality, integrity, and pride. We have done that. We take it very seriously when someone attacks our business or familyís character especially if it is misguided or absolutely wrong in this case. If you have a beef with Gas Monkey or Richard, you really should leave Coker Tire, myself or even my brother out of it.

The car guys and hotrodders I know donít do this sort of thing? Whatís up? Your plan to resolve?

Sincerely,

Corky Coker




-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan [mailto:jon@hotrodders.com]
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 8:50 PM
To: info@coker.com
Subject: parody video involving coker tire

Hello,

My name is Jonathan. I'm the administrator for the Hotrodders
Bulletin Board.

I cannot begin to express how disappointed we were to see Coker Tire
consorting with Gas Monkey Garage.

We have created a parody video of Gas Monkey Garage's first
promotional video. We are sending it to everyone we know, and
everyone they know. We feel that it's hilarious and wonderful, and
will be spread around the web swiftly and powerfully.

Here's a link: http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/monkeyboys.html

Your company is one of the few that has managed to maintain a solid
reputation among the hotrodding community throughout the years, an
extremely difficult task. We are perceiving this as a marketing
blunder, and we hope that you can send us some sort of communication
in response. Or, at very least, an indication that you will no longer
be associating yourselves with such tripe. We are receptive to all
forms of communication, be they subtle or direct.

Gas Monkey Garage spammed our forums, and manipulated our members
with their marketing tactics.

Your failure to respond to my previous inquiries is being interpreted
as a lack of desire to communicate with us. Judging from David
Coker's obvious fumbling over his lines, and his clear lack of greasy
marketing slickness, we feel that Coker Tire is not very skilled at
selling out, or pimping products for the mainstream hotrodding media.

Thanks,

Jonathan
CEO, President, and Janitor: Hotrodders.com
Administrator, Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 03:37 PM
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Corky,

Thanks for taking the time to post publicly in our forum. You are the first company representative involved in this situation to stand up and communicate publicly with us, and that takes guts.

And thank you for responding to one of my multiple emails to Coker Tire.

Regarding the relationship between Coker Tire and Gas Monkey Garage -- in his video, Richard says:

Quote:
"We just finished building a car for David Coker. He's involved with the Coker family of Coker Tire."
Hence, we parodied this as:

Quote:
"Is that David Coker? From Coker Tire?"
This seems perfectly legal to me, but I'd be happy to discuss it further if you don't think so. If this is generally perceived as unfair, I will edit that section of the video to say: "Is that David Coker? Involved with the Coker family of Coker tire?" However, my preference would be to leave the phrase "Coker Family" out of this, as I think that involving the term "family" may be out of line.

Note how Richard mentions the word "Coker" 3 times in 2 sentences. Once to connect David Coker with the Coker family, and then again to connect the Coker family with Coker tire. This is a semantic method of connecting David Coker to Coker tire.

BTW, regarding legal lines, publicly re-printing emails is a "grey zone". Same with other assumed "private" communications, such as PMs in forums. While there's nothing I'm ashamed to see in the email I sent you, it is something to keep in mind. Spamming forums, as Richard's marketing company has done, is also "technically" illegal.

Also, as we are on the subject of legal issues, it should be made known that using an interstate communications medium, such as the internet, to profit by means of "false pretenses, representations, or promises" constitutes wire fraud, a federal offense.

This is in no way whatsoever an accusation pointed at Coker Tire or Newstalgia Wheel, fine companies, as we have heard. However, we have already had company owners come on this board in the past for these purposes, so I want to make this known before other companies post in this thread. I am still looking into dodgy's spamming of our forums, and his marketing tactics, to see their exact legal classification.

I feel that it was wrong for Coker Tire to allow their good name to be associated with this tripe. I think that you guys are guilty by association, and we have the crappy job of having to call you out on it. If we don't, who will? The mags? The TV shows?

I imagine that you must be embarassed to have to hear the phrase "Coker Family" in a Richard Rawlings video.

Businesses fuel this marketing hype. I feel that calling them out on it will reduce the frequency of such events happening in the future. Every time I mention the "Coker" name in regard to this event, I have tried to specifically point out that they indeed have a great reputation among hotrodders, and that they, like us, have been duped by Gas Monkey Garage, and by the pseudo-badboy prefabricated culture that's being tossed down our throats by television-based hotrodding propaganda.

I also don't feel that "he's a good guy" or "he's a fine man" is a reasonable excuse. I am now receiving communications about how Richard Rawlings is a really good guy, and it was wrong to call him out for this.

Everyone is a "good guy". Perhaps even I am a good guy.

I'm sorry it has to be this way. I don't feel great about it. We are incredibly pissed-off about what's going on here, and we're fighting it the only way we know how. With the recent introduction of mainstream media video clips into internet culture, I fear that the internet will become like television, and that it's our duty to act to prevent it.

This is an American tradition, in line with Saturday Night Live, or numerous talk shows in which special sections are devoted to common political parodies.

Perhaps if companies established direct relationships with hotrodders, rather than communicating to them through the mainstream media, we would not be in this situation in the first place. Our door is always open, but , as of now, there is only a small and select group of companies that have taken the steps to establish a relationship of good faith with the Hotrodders Bulletin Board.

More information can be found in this new page which I've just finished: Monkey Boys Garage.

And still, we await a public and genuine apology from Richard Rawlings and Gas Monkey Garage.
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 05:27 PM
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And yes Corky, I am proud of that video.

I know it wasn't made by a fancy Hollywood production company. In fact, it's the first time I've ever made a video, and I'm sure it's rough around the edges.

However, I made it all by myself.

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  #160 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 05:43 PM
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I wish I could write as well and choose my words as well as you. Do you think that the monkey boys will be giving that new video away for free. Perhaps we could ask them that?
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  #161 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon
BTW, regarding legal lines, publicly re-printing emails is a "grey zone". Same with other assumed "private" communications, such as PMs in forums. While there's nothing I'm ashamed to see in the email I sent you, it is something to keep in mind. Spamming forums, as Richard's marketing company has done, is also "technically" illegal.
While I am not a lawyer, everything I have read, including far too many court documents online, says that this is not a "grey zone" at all. You own each email you compose. Copyright law therefore gives you the exclusive right to publish or choose a publisher. In the U.S., public interest may override copyright law, such as when Diebold's corporate email was published when revealing voting machine problems. It is far better to assume that no permission to publish is received with an email. Seventy years after the author dies, you're free to publish without permission, unless it was anonymous, pseudonymous or a work for hire, then it's 95 years after publication or 120 years after creation, whichever is shorter.
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  #162 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 11:23 PM
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The nice guy quote was about my brother, David Coker. As I told you, I do not know this Richard guy nor ever talked to him or met him.

Seems to me that kicking the guy off your forum would be the smart thing to do if he broke your rules. Life is too short. Seems like a big waste of time to me.

I prefer to talk about cars.

Corky

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon
Corky,

Thanks for taking the time to post publicly in our forum. You are the first company representative involved in this situation to stand up and communicate publicly with us, and that takes guts.

And thank you for responding to one of my multiple emails to Coker Tire.

Regarding the relationship between Coker Tire and Gas Monkey Garage -- in his video, Richard says:



Hence, we parodied this as:



This seems perfectly legal to me, but I'd be happy to discuss it further if you don't think so. If this is generally perceived as unfair, I will edit that section of the video to say: "Is that David Coker? Involved with the Coker family of Coker tire?" However, my preference would be to leave the phrase "Coker Family" out of this, as I think that involving the term "family" may be out of line.

Note how Richard mentions the word "Coker" 3 times in 2 sentences. Once to connect David Coker with the Coker family, and then again to connect the Coker family with Coker tire. This is a semantic method of connecting David Coker to Coker tire.

BTW, regarding legal lines, publicly re-printing emails is a "grey zone". Same with other assumed "private" communications, such as PMs in forums. While there's nothing I'm ashamed to see in the email I sent you, it is something to keep in mind. Spamming forums, as Richard's marketing company has done, is also "technically" illegal.

Also, as we are on the subject of legal issues, it should be made known that using an interstate communications medium, such as the internet, to profit by means of "false pretenses, representations, or promises" constitutes wire fraud, a federal offense.

This is in no way whatsoever an accusation pointed at Coker Tire or Newstalgia Wheel, fine companies, as we have heard. However, we have already had company owners come on this board in the past for these purposes, so I want to make this known before other companies post in this thread. I am still looking into dodgy's spamming of our forums, and his marketing tactics, to see their exact legal classification.

I feel that it was wrong for Coker Tire to allow their good name to be associated with this tripe. I think that you guys are guilty by association, and we have the crappy job of having to call you out on it. If we don't, who will? The mags? The TV shows?

I imagine that you must be embarassed to have to hear the phrase "Coker Family" in a Richard Rawlings video.

Businesses fuel this marketing hype. I feel that calling them out on it will reduce the frequency of such events happening in the future. Every time I mention the "Coker" name in regard to this event, I have tried to specifically point out that they indeed have a great reputation among hotrodders, and that they, like us, have been duped by Gas Monkey Garage, and by the pseudo-badboy prefabricated culture that's being tossed down our throats by television-based hotrodding propaganda.

I also don't feel that "he's a good guy" or "he's a fine man" is a reasonable excuse. I am now receiving communications about how Richard Rawlings is a really good guy, and it was wrong to call him out for this.

Everyone is a "good guy". Perhaps even I am a good guy.

I'm sorry it has to be this way. I don't feel great about it. We are incredibly pissed-off about what's going on here, and we're fighting it the only way we know how. With the recent introduction of mainstream media video clips into internet culture, I fear that the internet will become like television, and that it's our duty to act to prevent it.

This is an American tradition, in line with Saturday Night Live, or numerous talk shows in which special sections are devoted to common political parodies.

Perhaps if companies established direct relationships with hotrodders, rather than communicating to them through the mainstream media, we would not be in this situation in the first place. Our door is always open, but , as of now, there is only a small and select group of companies that have taken the steps to establish a relationship of good faith with the Hotrodders Bulletin Board.

More information can be found in this new page which I've just finished: Monkey Boys Garage.

And still, we await a public and genuine apology from Richard Rawlings and Gas Monkey Garage.
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  #163 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky Coker
Seems to me that kicking the guy off your forum would be the smart thing to do if he broke your rules. Life is too short. Seems like a big waste of time to me.
I'm sorry, but that indicates you are not familiar with all of the facts of the incident. It is not simply a case of an individual violating the rules of Hotrodders.com. The moderators are quite tolerant, but capable of dealing with rules violations without fanfare and with minimal disruption of discussions.

Gas Monkey Garage attempted to exploit the large readership of Hotrodders.com by way of a deceptive message for marketing purposes. The deceptive message easily could have been placed in "The Dump" and the user who posted could have been banned. However, that which was being marketed was particularly offensive to Jon and, apparently, quite a lot of us. It portrays hotrodding as some kind of fake counter-culture, much like the image television and main-stream media imposed, or tried to impose, on motorcycling and rock music in the '50s.

People who seek to market such an image and those who seek to purchase such an image for themselves are certainly free to do so. They are not free to use Hotrodders.com for that marketing, as spelled out in the guidelines.

Those who get grease under their fingernails trying to build their dream hotrod are just as free to ridicule that counter-culture fakery. Some of us think hotrodding is more about machinery and engineering than about "Spank My Monkey" thongs, dark glasses in a garage, and selling by any means that moves the product.

A lot of hot rod projects discussed in these forums began as father and son projects. Which version of hotrodders would you prefer to sell to the next generation, one of engineering or one of assumed and marketed imagery?
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  #164 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2006, 10:16 AM
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With all due respect...

I am having a hard time understanding why you guys are taking this so far and why you are treating Mr. Coker like you are.

Jon, the guy screwed up and did as you asked at the start and you are now on a witch hunt.

Mr. Coker responded and all you seem to do is keep go after people.

Now you have people showing up to post pictures attacking you and your members.

You have spawned that response...and I don't condone either action.

You did not start this, but you have made it worse and my opnion of you and this board is not what it used to be.

You should have closed this, banned GasMonkey, and moved on sir.

A page dedicated to this, attacks on Coker tire when they are not involved, and minions bandwagon jumping really looks pretty ugly sir.

I hope you can see my point in bringing this up.

I have lurked for quite some time and this really sucks.

Most boards would have stopped this crap long ago.

And yes, I have met Richard. In fact , was probably the first person to call him on the carpet on another board for his antics.

You can take this or leave it. It is just what I feel I am seeing.
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  #165 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2006, 11:11 AM
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Last edited by The Dutch; 08-27-2006 at 11:18 AM.
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