Gear Drive questions... - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2008, 05:07 PM
Nite Life's Avatar
I just wanna go fast.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Selah, WA
Posts: 23
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Gear Drive questions...

I am planning to put a gear drive setup in my Formula. I have heard that they can reduce HP, that they can cause excess wear on the valvetrain due to transmitted vibrations, etc. But I have also read that many knowledgable mechanics swear by them. I am a little torn. I would be buying one for 2 reasons: a) I love the sound of a gear drive. They are just frickin wicked. and b) I have had difficulties with timing chains and stretch in the past. I would love to eliminate this part of the equation.

Your thoughts?

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2008, 05:13 PM
Nite Life's Avatar
I just wanna go fast.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Selah, WA
Posts: 23
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
After noticing the many other threads involving this topic I believe I have come across the answer I was seeking...

Thx.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2008, 05:27 PM
DoubleVision's Avatar
Not Considered a Senior Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Heart Of Dixie
Age: 40
Posts: 10,657
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 15
Thanked 60 Times in 57 Posts
I`ve never used one and likely won`t. Only reason I would use one if there can be no exceptions in the cam timing, and since I`m not building 600 horse engines there will likely never be the need. Since you only said Formula, what year formula? is the computer still active? if so a gear drive can`t be used with a computer, the knock sensor will pick it up as detonation and retard the spark timing until it won`t run. If not, run your gear drive as you wish, but if timing chain stretch worry`s you get a Cloyes true roller set, heat the chain with a propane torch and throw it in a bucket of STP oil treatment, the heat causes expansion and the lube works it`s way into the rollers. I`ve removed chains with little to no stretch after over 50,000 hard miles and reused the set.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2008, 05:44 PM
Nite Life's Avatar
I just wanna go fast.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Selah, WA
Posts: 23
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi.

Firebird is a 1976, running a 1969 400 block, 143 heads.

Last edited by Nite Life; 01-03-2008 at 03:56 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2008, 04:51 PM
Nite Life's Avatar
I just wanna go fast.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Selah, WA
Posts: 23
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think this one got buried.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2008, 06:40 PM
opinionated old fart
 

Last journal entry: Sheetmetal
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Round Rock, Tx
Posts: 65
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
it didnt get buried, you effectively ended it with you second post.

Larry
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2008, 11:18 PM
WDCreech's Avatar
Grumpy Old Goat Herder
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Age: 71
Posts: 1,334
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 35 Times in 33 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nite Life
I am planning to put a gear drive setup in my Formula. I have heard that they can reduce HP, that they can cause excess wear on the valvetrain due to transmitted vibrations, etc. But I have also read that many knowledgable mechanics swear by them. I am a little torn. I would be buying one for 2 reasons: a) I love the sound of a gear drive. They are just frickin wicked. and b) I have had difficulties with timing chains and stretch in the past. I would love to eliminate this part of the equation.

Your thoughts?
A gear drive will transfer harmonics to the vave springs and they will loose pressure. If you want a chain that doesn't stretch, get the Australian RollMaster. Believe me. Been there, done that!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P5270003_edited.JPG
Views:	46
Size:	60.2 KB
ID:	26663   Click image for larger version

Name:	P5270010.JPG
Views:	56
Size:	52.4 KB
ID:	26664   Click image for larger version

Name:	P5270003.JPG
Views:	53
Size:	75.4 KB
ID:	26665  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2008, 12:07 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 447
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Gear drive.

Yes gear drives work, however this is in race engines that see minimal long term use. Most of these engines are rebuilt almost every race. A gear drive is a very accurate way to stabilize cam timing at sustained high rpm use (if properly set up). They are however very troublesome for everyday street use. they wear excessively, do transmit high frequency vibrations to the valvetrain. There is nothing wrong with a high quality chain. Yes, Chains do stretch, but are simple, easy to set up and very durable. If any of you are old enough to remember "Grumpy's Toy" pro stock 352 CID Vega. (destroked 400 /400 with small journal 327 crank with home made thick spacer bearings). He used stock gm timing chains and ran the engines to 9800-10,000 RPM with no failures. Of course he changed them out after each race.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2008, 05:54 AM
Hippie's Avatar
Analog man in a digital world.
 

Last journal entry: HEI comparison.
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,253
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studebaker
Yes gear drives work, however this is in race engines that see minimal long term use.
I'm truly disappointed in an answer like this from someone with the user name "Studebaker". Studebaker's used gear drive timing sets until the early 60's, the one in my 289 is 52 years old with who knows how many miles on it and still works just fine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2008, 06:00 AM
1ownerT's Avatar
Home School Valedictorian
 
Last wiki edit: Health and safety in the shop or garage Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Iowa
Age: 53
Posts: 1,645
Wiki Edits: 4

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Doesn't the Chevy inline 6 use gears no chain?

I believe that many racers especially NASCAR use a belt drive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2008, 11:30 AM
RPM's Avatar
RPM RPM is offline
World Class ASE tech
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hills of TN
Age: 64
Posts: 704
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studebaker
Yes gear drives work, however this is in race engines that see minimal long term use. Most of these engines are rebuilt almost every race. A gear drive is a very accurate way to stabilize cam timing at sustained high rpm use (if properly set up). They are however very troublesome for everyday street use. they wear excessively, do transmit high frequency vibrations to the valvetrain. There is nothing wrong with a high quality chain. Yes, Chains do stretch, but are simple, easy to set up and very durable. If any of you are old enough to remember "Grumpy's Toy" pro stock 352 CID Vega. (destroked 400 /400 with small journal 327 crank with home made thick spacer bearings). He used stock gm timing chains and ran the engines to 9800-10,000 RPM with no failures. Of course he changed them out after each race.
I remember that. Jenkins claimed the stock aluminum gear with the plastic on it made the most power.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2008, 03:43 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 447
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Timing gears

No offense Hippie, You are correct, the Stude V8's did use timing gears, however this was a two gear drive making the camshaft reverse rotation.. the gears were not straight cut and this allowed the gear to provide slight rear pressure to keep the cam from moving back and forth. What I WAS refering to in the above post was the the cheap idler type gear drives (Cam gear, Crank gear and two floating idlers) that they sell for SBC and BBC. These are not very effective and usually cause more problems than they solve. . It's nice to meet someone else that is into Studebakers. I had a 63 Avanti with Stude 289. That was a great designed engine. Long stroke forged crank, reverse rotation solid lifter cam w/ adjustable shaft rockers. It was surprising how much torque the small 289 made! Most people don't know Stude had a 289 before Ford, Better design in my opinion. The Avanti body was less than desirable fiberglass Quality, but for 1963, hey it's the best they had. And I know of no other american made cars in 63 that had front disc brakes! I currently have a Stude 50 R-2 truck But I repowered with 355 chevy-t-350 and ford 8" rear. It drives very well. Those Studes were way ahead of there time, both in engineering and style. Stude's forever!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2008, 05:08 PM
Hippie's Avatar
Analog man in a digital world.
 

Last journal entry: HEI comparison.
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,253
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studebaker
No offense Hippie, You are correct, the Stude V8's did use timing gears, however this was a two gear drive making the camshaft reverse rotation.. the gears were not straight cut and this allowed the gear to provide slight rear pressure to keep the cam from moving back and forth. What I WAS refering to in the above post was the the cheap idler type gear drives (Cam gear, Crank gear and two floating idlers) that they sell for SBC and BBC.
I was just funnin' ya', I couldn't pass that one up. I have a '55 Commander C body Coupe with a 289 out of a '56 President or Sky Hawk. Mine is an early '55 and originally came with a 224 V-8. Don't know who put the 289 in or when but I'm glad they did.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2008, 05:32 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 81
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Gear Drives

I've personally used Pete Jackson Gear Drives since 1981.
You can see my Vettes and customer engines that I've used gear drives in. I never had any problems because I followed the instructions and bought undersize idlers when I needed the specified clearance. 9.20's with the 69 Vette and 8.70's with the 90 Vette. Gear drives do rob a little horsepower, and create harmonics, but for 150+ in the 1/4 mile with no power adders, I think they work fine in most street cars. I would NEVER run the noisey drive, and I personally like Pete Jackson because of idler availability.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2008, 07:24 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 165
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Here i my experience with a gear drive on the street. Yea the noise is cool, but also can trick you because it is not always constant. My lock plate allowed the bolts to come out, yes it was my fault because I didn't use lock-tite, but the plate should have stopped them from moving. Accurate timing, guaranteed but how much rpm are you going to see, and most timing chains are good to 100,000 miles that is if you get a good set.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gear Drive Pro's, Con's & Recomendations Willys473 Engine 21 04-16-2006 04:20 PM
erson gear drive blndweasel Engine 2 02-15-2005 02:33 PM
Gear drive question?? HemmiGremmie Engine 9 09-02-2004 06:21 PM
Erson Gear Drive Woes blndweasel Engine 9 07-14-2004 10:53 AM
Bad gear drive? Marcus Engine 0 03-14-2004 05:44 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.