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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-05-2012, 07:35 AM
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Thanks for the "vote of confidence". I DO try...

Spinn,

All this is interesting, but completely irrelevant to the Pontiac. Chevy "boys" nearly ALWAYS talk bad about the Pontiac. It's a turd and blows up. IF you build it like a small block, this is 100% true. If one were to delve into the actual history of the GM engine programs, you would know the small block and the Pontiac are "cousins", but on the "mother's side", not the father. The Pontiac could be viewed as a "small block on steroids". Mac McKellar "invented" the stamped rocker arm. Ed Cole saw it and improved it. The blocks are similar in length, but that's all. The Chevy has a short rod and compact intake/head design, which, as we all know, works VERY well. The Pontiac has a "tall" deck (10.240", a full .040" taller than a "tall deck" BIG BLOCK). The Pontiac also enjoys a "long" connecting rod and very good internal geometry (rod/stroke ratio and "rod angle", to be specific). The Pontiac exhaust port is the single "worst" design feature. The intake port, on the other hand, is among the better designs from the era. These last two factors are "why" the Pontiac makes such good low-speed power, AND why it isn't as good "up high" without a TON of porting. The aftermarket heads have "fixed" that particular problem in a variety of ways. Aftermarket connecting rods, too, have changed EVERYTHING. It's not uncommon now, to see a 475 CID engine making well over 700 HP on 93 octane, and "shifting" above 7,000 RPM. The old "myth", "Can't rev a Pontiac" simply isn't true either. With good heads and bottom-end parts, they rev with any. Dirty Bird shifted at 9,200 every pass.

I know I get a little carried away, but time has come for re-education of "the masses". Things aren't what they "were". We've already climbed over Dodge, and are aiming at the Fords. At 500 CID, using production-style cylinder heads, Pontiacs are again 100% "competitive". As the Warp-6 and Ram Air V heads get perfected, we won't even need the qualifier "production heads"!

Jim

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2012, 08:24 AM
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Damn right they can be built to make power up top, and they also make great low RPM grunt monsters. The 467 in my blue Formula is the former, makes a few ticks over 700hp on pump gas and will turn 7500 easily, but I dont take it up that high very often, no need to. It has ported 87cc E heads and a 270/272 solid roller in it with a good bottom end, so now the block is the weak link. Its a seriously fun engine but its a HUGE pain to drive on the street.

I prefer the iron headed 455s for having fun off the track, and for some bracket racing. Once the traction issue was figured out the old Blue Firebird was hard to beat with the previous iron headed 455 and a mild cam. The only sbc in my area that could run with it had a 6-71 on it. 3750lbs, mid 11s with a stock converter in the Th400. Lots of fun building for torque.
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:50 AM
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What did you do about it hookin up? I have an idea about some traction bars that would theoretically make the body squat in the rear.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2012, 10:49 AM
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With the old engine that only made about 540hp/590ftlbs, it hooked ok with 285 65 15 BFG drag radials. Not the best, they only did 1.7ish 60fts. This new engine smokes them like its on ice, half throttle smoke shows are the norm now, but those tires are old and hard. Bought them in 2002. Here is a half throttle vid before I got the body put back together after paint.

Slapper bars are really only intended to stop wheel hop, which should be hard to get with multi leaf springs. Mono leafs will hop around easy with enough power and some traction. To really hook the front end needs to come up somewhat easily, and if you can get the rear to lift instead of squat that helps too. Calvert bars or lift bars are the ticket to get the rear to go up. The lighter up front the better. Without sticky tires you are going to be doing John Force impressions with a 455.

My 70 GTO with 2.93 gears and stock converter in the Th400 would spin the 275 60 15 Kumho tires hard while rolling 35mph, it had a low compression 455 that made around 500ftlbs and approximately 400hp. That year Goat has a 90lb front bumper, so they are fun to get to hook.

Most Pontiac 350s I have been around can have traction issues easily, they have the same stroke as a 400's 3.75" with a smaller bore. They like to grunt with that crank. As a side note, its super fun to tell a chevy guy you have a 350 crank and rods in your 400 and its a 406. They get really confused.

I like these engines because you can run highway gears and dont need a big stall behind them, but they really like 2200-2800 stall. That means less stuff to buy, lower cruise RPM on the highway, and they use less gas because of it.
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:04 AM
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I'm running a muncie m20.. wr with a 10 bolt safe t track 3.36 and 255 60 15 goodyear eagle st and gabriel heavy duty shocks on 1.5" or 2" lift 5 leaf spring
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Old 09-06-2012, 11:24 AM
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I'm running a basically stock 69 350 30 over #47 heads 216/228 w.454/.470 lift @050 and I think the lobe separation is 112 or 113 an edelbrock p4b dual plane with a notch cut out between the secondaries and a 1406 edelbrock
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2012, 09:33 PM
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I read that you were running a 350, and you are on the right path to making decent power with it. You mght want to think about a different trans if you intend to put a 461 in your car. I have broken a ST10, M20 and an M21 with mild 455s. It will live a long time behind the 350 if you take good care of it. I went automatic because it only costs me $200 to rebuild one of those, and $400 minimum for a manual, plus the auto lives longer with lots of torque.

Got any pics of your car? You should post them up. Always wanted a first gen bird, make mine a 69.
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:10 AM
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I was thinking of going with a 6 sp and leaning toward pro touring look up the red devil 69 camaro on u tube. Although the ls9 is a little out of my budget its a nice concept
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:13 AM
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Btw I haven't figured out how to post pics yet ...it looks more like something from the road warrior lol
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:34 AM
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The actual cam specs are...216/228 at@050 and .454/.480 lift and 112 lobe separation
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Old 09-09-2012, 08:05 AM
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I thought I was on the right track uploading a pic ..it failed. Shoot me your email n ill send some pics of my 68. I had a 65 gto once. I've lost my heel from kicking myself in the a** for selling it
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2012, 01:39 PM
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I use photobucket or imgur to post pics. You can attach them if they arent too big with the buttons on the reply window. There is a limit of something like 2mb for pics on here, so if they are too large, they wont show.

The 65 is just one of the cars I have. Someday in the not too distant future some of them will find new homes, but they will be drivable and look decent. If they arent drivable then the chances they will get crushed or just rust in someone elses back yard are too great. For a while I was like a crazy cat person taking in any stray, but with cars. Gotta thin the herd at some point.

65 is my favorite year of GTO, always wanted one growing up and now I am building it for my father in law to enjoy. I have the LeMans to build for me, so we will both have 65s to drive next year.
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