Hot Rod Forum banner

German Tank Engines

5K views 21 replies 11 participants last post by  killerformula 
#1 ·
Lately WWII german tank engines have caught my attention. I`ve looked up info on these but not much is avalible. The engine is a maybach V12 HL230 used in the Panzer tank. From what I`ve read, this engine came with a 6.8:1 compression ratio. Which makes me think it should have been so lazy it was a turd. I`m curious to why the compression ratio of these engines were so low. Even so they had multi valve heads, four 2 barrel carbs and lots of cubic inches, it still seems like the lowest compression ratio acceptable would have been at least 10:1, especially since it had to move massive tanks around. There`s footage on Youtube about a complete panzer restoration after it was submerged in a river for 45 years. It shows them steering the tank by locking one track, when they do this the engine goes into a heck of a lug. Was gasoline in those days so cruddy the octane rating was too low to run higher compression ratios? My father remembers 100 octane gas in the 1940`s, but I don`t know if Germany had the same fuels.
 
#2 ·
WWII German Tank engines

Wow! I've learned something - For some reason I thot the panzers ran on "diseasels". I recall reading about how, in tank - to - tank battles in the Sahara in '41, the panzers could take a hit, but the British armor, being "petrol" powered would "brew up" (catch fire & burn completely, incinerating the crew), but then again - I also recall reading that in the early European Blitzkreig (1939 -41) the Germans didn't have to worry much about outrunning their supply lines as they could refuel in whatever towns they captured, so I guess a gas engine made sense for them - I just never thot about it.
 
#5 ·
The larger the diameter of chamber the less compression you can run without detonation, it has to do with the distance the flame has to cover which raises the possibility of a secondary flame front forming causing spark knock. The fuel was pretty nasty too, only the aircraft got the high test stuff back then.
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the info guys. Upon more reading I found they have hemispherical combustion chambers, gear driven over head cams, roller crank shaft bearings, roller tipped rockers on the cam side, twin magnetos and a dry sump oiling system. Even so these engines were designed way back when it sounds like the engineers had there act together.
 
#7 ·
OT, but I was surprised when I opened up my '64 Harley panhead and found roller lifters in it. Hydraulic, no less.

Prolly the wildest valve actuation system was the desmodromic set-up used by Ducati. The valves in a desmo are mechanically closed, no valve float/bounce.

Check it out below.
 

Attachments

#10 ·
cobalt327 said:
OT, but I was surprised when I opened up my '64 Harley panhead and found roller lifters in it. Hydraulic, no less.

Prolly the wildest valve actuation system was the desmodromic set-up used by Ducati. The valves in a desmo are mechanically closed, no valve float/bounce.

Check it out below.

The desmo system is why I bought a honda instead of a ducati. :( Too much maintenance and they tend to sluff chrome off of the followers (at least on the 748).
 
#11 ·
The biggest shock to me is I never knew they were this advanced then, as many of the things they are using in this V12 for power is the same mods we use today. I had no idea dry sumping was known then, these engines had a oil pressure rating of 120 PSI. I would think with most of the parts being roller oil pressure requirements wouldn`t be no where near that high, but it is 12 cylinders and that`s something i`m not familiar with. Just think, with technology thats out there today what could be done with this engine. In the stock form it made around 690 horses but that was out of 1409 cubic inches. This lets my imaganation run wild, such as, what would happen if the compression ratio was raised to 10:1. A set of "RV" cams were designed to take advantage of the low to mid range torque powerband. A set of tri-Y headers and four 500cfm Annular booster 2 barrel carbs in place of the stockers and the thing would likely make 1100 horsepower and around 1700 ft lbs of torque,,, man! the possibilities. Next we can go to multi port fuel injection and and and......... But looking at it from a technology point of view it`s no wonder they all went with turbine engines.
 
#12 · (Edited)
DoubleVision said:
But looking at it from a technology point of view it`s no wonder they all went with turbine engines.
Got that right. Less engine weight = more armor and armament. ;)

Much of what was used during WWII in aircraft laid the groundwork for high performance automotive technology that sprang up on the dry lake beds after the war.

Super- and turbocharging, nitrous oxide, exotic fuels, high compression, better ignitions, aerodynamics, etc.

Ever see the streamliners made from P-38 Lightning and P-51 Mustang external fuel tanks? Pretty wild stuff.
 
#13 · (Edited)
since your checking out german tank engines and mention you are suprized by some of your findings, check out the german daimler-benz DB 601 engine that came in the ME-109 fighter. it is a V-12 engine that is INVERTED (yes the crank is at the top and the heads at the bottom). it has overhead (really "underhead") cams, dry sump, turbocharging and fuel injection. it also used nitrous injection when at full throttle "war emergency power". now that is some engine!!! and it ran on 87 octane fuel.

as for the compression guestion, we (the allies) had 100++ octane avgas available. the best the germans could do for their avgas was 87 octane, so i would guess that fuel for their vehicles was even less than 87 octane, thus the low compression.

on the DB 601 engine, i saw a documentary a few years ago where someone was restoring/rebuilding one. they sent the internals to rolls royce to be checked out. the crankshaft is what i REALLY REMEMBER, the crank checked our but RR said "be very careful with that crank, if you damage it we could not even make a duplicate with the tooling we have today!!!" :thumbup:

EDIT: it's not turbocharged, it's supercharged with a crank driven centrifugal supercharger---my bad. :welcome:
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top