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Which to get first Torch or Mig?

3K views 32 replies 15 participants last post by  oldred 
#1 ·
Was wondering what the general consensus was about which would be best to get first,an acetylene torch or a mig welder? Read the threads on torches so will get a Victor, is the medium duty 250 series regulator or heavy duty 350 series regulator better for mostly automotive work? For the mig I would be looking at something operating on 240v in the 175-200 amp range either a Hobart, Lincoln or Miller. Any pointers on what to look out for on either of these? The place I would get the tanks filled sells them & then does cylinder exchange so you never have to get them re-certified they take care of that. What is a good price for these? Looking at making both a onetime purchase so wanting to stay with quality brands.
 
#2 ·
It might depend on the kinds of things you will be doing most. I know I use my mig much much more than I ever use my torch...but then I'm not very good welding with a torch and most things I cut I do with an angle grinder or chop saw. So my personal preference would be to go mig first...but your needs might be quite different than mine.

All three of those migs you mentioned have reputations as good, dependable units. The one feature I really like and would recommend is to get a unit with infinite settings on voltage and speed...rather than one with just 4-6 individual settings. Good welders can obviously get used to any machine but I think the infinite settings can help if you are a more novice welder (like me).
 
#3 ·
How much experience do you have with welding? If none, go with the mig. I would suggest a Hobart Handler 187. A great unit and all you will ever need.

Now, with regards to the torch, have you ever used one before? Welding with a torch can be somewhat difficult and time consuming as opposed to a mig where you just pull the trigger and go. However, a torch set up is the MOST versatile of any welder. You dont need any power and it can go anywhere. It can also do everything from thin sheetmetal to heavy steel.

-Greg
 
#4 ·
I bought my torch set 38 yrs ago. It has served me well, done a lot of work with it. Welding, brazing, heating, cutting, soldering....etc. I bought a Lincoln 15, 130amp, 220v Mig about 5 years ago. My oxygen tank went empty about 3 years ago and I don't even miss it. I use my cut off saw or zip wheels for almost all my cutting, its more acurate then a torch and you can weld it right away wiyhout a lot of clean up. As a side note I havn't used my arc welder since I got my mig either so take it from there......just my 2 cents anyway.
 
#5 ·
Strictly Gravy said:
How much experience do you have with welding? If none, go with the mig. I would suggest a Hobart Handler 187. A great unit and all you will ever need.

Now, with regards to the torch, have you ever used one before? Welding with a torch can be somewhat difficult and time consuming as opposed to a mig where you just pull the trigger and go. However, a torch set up is the MOST versatile of any welder. You dont need any power and it can go anywhere. It can also do everything from thin sheetmetal to heavy steel.

-Greg

The welding I have done in the past has been with a stick welder as the factory I worked at didn't have a mig back in the late 80's. Main thing I used the torch for was heating things up to bend them, never welded or brazed with one but should be able to pick it up with some practice.
 
#7 ·
poncho62 said:
I use my torches mostly for taking things apart........the rust belt is a killer on nuts and bolts. If you have that situation a lot, the heat wrench is real handy.
Would a plasma cutter work for this type thing? Main thing I can envision using a torch for is exhaust work & like you say taking things apart because the salt is hard on them. I can also see places such as on an engine where a plasma couldn't be used so don't know. :confused: Guess if money wasn't an object I'd have one of everything but that's not the case.
 
#9 ·
SteveU said:
Guess if money wasn't an object I'd have one of everything but that's not the case.


Unfortunately being able to do all types of jobs would require one of everything which is usually not practical. The question you asked in the first post is a darn good one and is one that a lot of people may have to decide but the answer usually is not the same for everyone. Which you buy first depends entirely on what your particular needs are, for instance will this be mostly for body work or will you be building trailers or maybe a lot of frame work. Personally for body work I would prefer a MIG welder but if I had to choose between it or the torch I would take the torch without even having to think about it. Reason being you can weld body panels with a torch or a MIG but of course you can't cut things apart with a MIG. For frame work or something like trailers then the MIG would be the first choice because parts for this type of work can usually be cut with a saw and while a torch "could" be used for welding it would be very impractical where a MIG would be ideal.
 
#10 ·
Oldred, can you see any reason to get the heavy duty torch with the 350 regulator over the medium duty one with the 250 regulator for automotive work? Would the standard tips be enough or would it be a good idea to get additional tips? Right now all I'll be doing is automotive but who knows what the future holds? If someone would have told me 20 yrs ago when I bought this place that I would be into all the things I now do I'd have looked at them like they were crazy ie me have a lift, what do I need one of them for. LOL
 
#11 ·
Go for the MIG first.
I've been doing automotive stuff without a torch for 25 years and seldom wish I had one. I do have a MIG and a TIG, a HF 4x6" bandsaw, a lathe and mill, but I've just never had enough justification to have a torch.
A friend runs a very busy one-man welding business from his home shop and doesn't even have a torch setup.
 
#12 ·
oldred said:
Unfortunately being able to do all types of jobs would require one of everything which is usually not practical. The question you asked in the first post is a darn good one and is one that a lot of people may have to decide but the answer usually is not the same for everyone. Which you buy first depends entirely on what your particular needs are, for instance will this be mostly for body work or will you be building trailers or maybe a lot of frame work. Personally for body work I would prefer a MIG welder but if I had to choose between it or the torch I would take the torch without even having to think about it. Reason being you can weld body panels with a torch or a MIG but of course you can't cut things apart with a MIG. For frame work or something like trailers then the MIG would be the first choice because parts for this type of work can usually be cut with a saw and while a torch "could" be used for welding it would be very impractical where a MIG would be ideal.
Right now mainly looking at body work as everything I drive is 1993 & older and living here in the salt belt it takes it's toll on things. Even though they are mechanically sound I don't want them to turn into rust buckets & have the wife commandeer my tool budget for a new car payment. :nono: :pain: If they look alright & run allright she is happy to keep them which frees up money for the important things in life...like the shop. :thumbup:
 
#13 ·
Arc Welder and torch setup

I have an old arc welder, lots of mess with splatter but I also have a torch setup - which I would be Lost without.
I can weld and braze with a torch and even use the wet rag trick when gas welding sheet metal.
I have use Mig welders but never had a reason to upgrade from the old stuff I have now, But, its time. I need a good Mig welder and cut off saw for fab work.
For repairs, I use the torch to cut off old stuff, such as trailer hitches, fixing broken seat frames etc. Its also some times needed when I have to put allot heat on something rusty to get it to come loose.

I really guess it depends on what your needs are.
If you building something up or fabing things, then a cut off saw and Mig welder would be my first choice.
 
#14 ·
It is hard to learn to weld with a torch. The only things I use mine for are cutting things off a parts car or heating things up trying to get out a stuck bolt. That same money can buy a really nice MIG welder. I use my plasma cutter a bit but I don't use it enough to justify the money one would cost(I traded a bunch of parts for it so I didn't have any money out of pocket). I still end up using a cut off tool or grinder far more often than the torch or plasma cutter.

If it is just for body work the torch won't leave nice clean cuts like the plasma would but you still need a pretty steady hand for a nice cut with a plasma(easier for me to just use a cut-off wheel). If it was a choice between the torch or plasma cutter I would get the torch first but with just a cut-off tool you can get by just fine.

If you do end up getting a torch the medium duty is all you need. Even cutting on a pickup truck frame is fairly light duty work.

No matter what way you go make sure you get youself a couple good fire extinguishers and keep a hose handy. It is pretty easy to catch a rubber bushing on fire and you would be amazed at how fast a fire will spread.
 
#15 ·
47dodge said:
It is hard to learn to weld with a torch.

If you do end up getting a torch the medium duty is all you need.

No matter what way you go make sure you get youself a couple good fire extinguishers and keep a hose handy. It is pretty easy to catch a rubber bushing on fire and you would be amazed at how fast a fire will spread.


Yes it can be difficult to learn to weld with a torch but once mastered it is a skill that is definitely worth the effort! No other process teaches the fundamentals of welding like Oxy/Acetylene and learning to torch weld will help establish better habits and skills in other types of welding. That medium duty outfit will easily cut metal up to 1" thick and will be more than enough to tackle most any welding/brazing job likely to be encountered. In addition to that very sound advice on the fire extinguishers I keep several plastic spray bottles handy (the kind spay cleaners come in) filled with water for use when I weld on a car. Just grab it up to squirt burning rubber, undercoating, etc and it makes it easy to keep those small fires and smoldering debris from turning into something serious.
 
#16 ·
Roger the fire extinguishers & water bottles, will need to get some around before going much further. Will be starting to check out prices on Mig welders at the local places & get an idea of cost. Right now most of the things I need to cut I could use a cut off wheel for so looks like the mig will be first & torch second. Now to figure out if there are any in my price range with infinite adjustment vs tapped in 5 or 6 places.
 
#17 ·
SteveU said:
Now to figure out if there are any in my price range with infinite adjustment vs tapped in 5 or 6 places.
The Hobart Handler 187 is a pretty good welder for the money. Hobart is owned by Miller so it is a good brand at a bit less money than Miller or Lincoln. It has 7 heat settings and infinite adjustment on wire speed. They sell for $650 at Farm and Fleet here but they go on sale for $600. Don't forget it will also cost for wiring up for it and for a tank of gas for it(you don't need the gas if you don't mind using flux core wire) I just upgraded to this welder but I haven't got my house wired for it yet so I haven't used it yet. It seems like a lot of money but a good welder for hobby use should last a lifetime. My old welder is almost 20 years old and never had a problem. I only upgraded because my old welder was 110 volt so I wanted bigger and I had a $500 gift card to use there.
 
#18 ·
47dodge said:
The Hobart Handler 187 is a pretty good welder for the money. Hobart is owned by Miller


That little Hobart is an excellent welder for the money. :)

Just to (once again) debunk an urban legend, Hobart is NOT owned by Miller! :nono: This rumor got started some time back when ITW, who also owns Miller, bought out the welder division from Hobart. Hobart welders is a separate entity and both Miller and Hobart are owned by ITW as the parent company, sort of like GM owns several different divisions. This is an important issue because the story usually goes that Hobart is just Miller's economy line and is thus a lesser quality machine which simply IS NOT TRUE. Because of the common parent company (ITW is diverse and owns other business besides welding) both Hobart and Miller share some common parts on some machines.This division of ITW is called Hobart/Miller Electric mfg applegate wisconsin.

It would be kind of strange that the Hobart name is first if Miller did indeed own Hobart. :mwink:
 
#19 ·
Ok, I do know they are both owned by Illinois Tool Works. Sorry I kind of assumed Miller owned Hobart. The tags at the store with the prices gave the Hobart part # but said Miller Electric. In the warranty they say Hobart/Miller. They also seem to market them differently around here which gives the appearance that they are a lower and higher line. I know that Hobart has a good reputation for quality though. They do share some common componants and Hobart and Miller can both be serviced at each others service locations.
 
#20 ·
Just to say that Miller owns Hobart is no big deal but when someone is trying to make a decision on which machine to buy and is told that Hobart is just a stripped down Miller and of lesser quality (not what you said but the way the story usually goes) then it does become a problem. ITW aims the Miller division more at the industrial sector and builds equipment (also prices!) for that market while Hobart is aimed more toward the small shop and farm type markets. As you get into the heavy welders the Miller line has about anything you would need but from 250 AMPs on up you will not find Hobarts anymore. Of the smaller machines some of the Miller models are "full featured" and priced accordingly while the Hobart may not include features that would be of little or no interest to a small shop/farm owner. Hobart and Miller still compete in the very competitive welder market and neither owns the other so there is in no compromise on quality with the little Hobart welders being some of the best on the market and no one's "second line"! :)
 
#21 ·
What do you guys think of the millermatic 180 with autoset? Looks like it has knobs you set to the material thickness & what wire you're using then it automatically sets the other parameters. Looks like a good beginners welder but will also let you manually set things for when you know more what you're doing.
 
#22 ·
JMO but, not much. I know a couple of other guys who don't care much for it either and I have heard Miller has been having problems with it anyway. That is a feature that just makes no sense to me because there simply is no one setting, even for the same metal thickness, that is a "one size fits all" Miller may think such a feature would appeal to the novice welder (as in sales) but really, setting and fine tuning the machine is just part of the operation and is something that is just second nature that comes with use. IMO this is one feature that simply is not needed.
 
#23 ·
oldred said:
Personally for body work I would prefer a MIG welder but if I had to choose between it or the torch I would take the torch without even having to think about it. Reason being you can weld body panels with a torch or a MIG but of course you can't cut things apart with a MIG.
My thoughts exactly. I have both now and wouldn't want to give up either one. I still use my torches, but not for welding. I used the torches to flame cut my own disk brake brackets on my T bucket out of 3/8" plate.

I tend to part out donor cars quite a bit and found it's much faster and can get in tighter spaces easier with the torch than the cut off wheel.
 
#24 ·
Get the torch.

You can learn to weld with a torch and I would suggest that.
Things happen more slowly and you can see the metal start to sweat and learn bead control. Start by making 2" long beads on scrap until you can make them consistant. After you can do that, start using filler rod and get those beads consistant.

I would not suggest a mig until after you know how to weld, which is a practiced technique more than a learned subject.

Also, a torch is useful for Mr Hot Wrench and cutting things apart. These are very useful capabilities.

You can weld anything with a torch including airplanes and aluminum; just learn technique first.
 
#25 ·
Just got back from the welding supply place, they have all Lincoln equipment. The power mig 140, 180, 215 and 250. The 180C looks like about what I'd need and that model with a cart, Q-80 bottle filled with 75/25 and X540-1 Arc one welding helmet out the door tax & everything is 1414.00 This machine has infinite adjustment on both power & speed and is rated for 24 gauge thru 3/16" single pass and can do aluminum with an optional spool gun. Considering I don't work on heavy equipment this should cover anything I'll need. What do you guys think of this one?
 
#26 ·
Torch or Mig

I have a torch, 175 Hobart Handler Mig, Chop Saw, Cut Off Wheels and a 220 Volt Plasma Cutter. I use my torch and my plasma cutter about ten times a year, My chop saw 4-5 times as much as the torch and plasma cutter. My cutoff wheels and Hobart are my right arm in the shop. I do wish I would have bought two steps bigger on the Hobart though.

Bob
 
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