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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2005, 01:47 PM
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Getting real annoying....

Hey all,

Well heres my story. My starter was grinding before and i had to put a ton of shims on it (this is on a 1976 Trans Am with a 350 chevy). I had gotten the starter from autozone. I figured it was a bad casting maybe or something, so I went out and got another starter (Napa brand). I got the starter, and went to try and start my car and the starter would engage but would not spin. I figured out that the starter had the wrong solenoid on it. I get a new solenoid and test it outside the car using jumper cables and it engaged and spun like it was supposed to. I go to put the starter in my car, and as i was moving my positive battery cable out of the way, i bumped the frame with it and some sparks shot out. I didnt think anything of it. So i disconnected my neg. battery terminal and proceeded to put the starter in, and hook up the ignition wire and the positive battery to the terminals on the starter. I hooked the neg. battery terminal back up to the battery and go to start the car and nothing at all. Checked the connections at the starter and battery and they were secure. Tried again, and nothing. I checked (with the ignition in the "on" position) the voltage at the starter. It was getting about .44 volts, WAY less than what i need. I checked the voltage on the HEI distributor (with the ignition in the "on" position) and that also had around .40 volts. At that point i was thinking it may be the neutral safety switch. Checked the switch for continuity , and everything checked out ok. Made sure that the switch was in park. Tried again, and still nothing. I check all my fusible links up by the alternator and check the wire from the positive battery cable to the alternator and go to start the car and still nothing. So at this point, im not sure what to do, if anyone could help that would be great thanks all.

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Old 08-07-2005, 02:30 PM
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sounds like you smoked a fuseable link.. follow the power wire there is sometime on at the passenger frame and then a couple on the wires for the starter. fuse link looks like a big plastic round thing with the wire running through it. you can ohm it to see if its open.

jeff
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Old 08-07-2005, 02:34 PM
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Doc here,

Somewhere shortly off the starter, you missed a fuse link, pull the tape , inspect and replace.

There are generally 3 legs coming off a fuse link, Switched, unswitched and alternator...one of the other's have opened up on you. All should be coming off the main starter solenoid wire to the harness.

ALWAYS disconnect the battery BEFORE attempting any electrical work on any vehicle...or this and much worse can happen...

Consider this...The meter box at your house provides 125 amps to run your home...the battery in your car provides up to 1000 amps...don't slight it because it's just a 12 volt battery..

Doc
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Old 08-07-2005, 04:51 PM
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Heh, yeah it happens i guess, you live and you learn.

Thanks for the help all.
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Old 08-14-2005, 07:15 PM
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I checked all the fusible links i could find. I only saw two under the hood, and they were both ok. I'm not sure where the other fusible links are if anyone knows that would be great. Also, if they all check out fine, then what next?
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Old 08-15-2005, 12:26 AM
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Follow the steps......to fix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zipfactor
Hey all,

I go to put the starter in my car, and as i was moving my positive battery cable out of the way, i bumped the frame with it and some sparks shot out. I didnt think anything of it.
You should have checked all the links involved if you tested the 2 or 4 at he Main lug of the solenoid. Does the rest of the car have power , lights, radio etc?


Quote:
Quote:
hook up the ignition wire and the positive battery to the terminals on the starter.
Big cable and cables with the fuse links to the big solenoid bolt,

Ignition wire to the "I" terminal of the solenoid,

And Start position of the key to the "S" terminal of the solenoid
is the ONLY way that will work...be SURE it's that way...

Check the "S" wire for 12 volts when you turn the key to the run position..
If not, and you have power everywhere else in the car..,

back track that wire it's open or the switch has failed in the run position.


Quote:
I checked (with the ignition in the "on" position) the voltage at the starter.


Where at on the starter??????? The big main bolt and fuse link wires (same terminal) will be between 12 and 14,4 volts....big cable goes straight back to the battery can't miss it.......


Quote:
It was getting about .44 volts, WAY less than what i need.
What was getting .44 volts? the "S" or "I" terminals??

Quote:
I checked the voltage on the HEI distributor (with the ignition in the "on" position) and that also had around .40 volts.
If your getting .44 volts at the HEI you do not have primary Ignition power..your wires are wrong at the solenoid...

Quote:
At that point i was thinking it may be the neutral safety switch. Checked the switch for continuity , and everything checked out OK. Made sure that the switch was in park. Tried again, and still nothing.

The NS switch will Have No effect on the HEI at all except to disable the Secondary Ignition (if used) During cranking...THE ONLY thing it does is open the circuit to the "S" Terminal on the solenoid....PERIOD...nothing more except if a clutch over ride is involved in a Manual Transmission.

Quote:
I check all my fusible links up by the alternator and check the wire from the positive battery cable to the alternator and go to start the car and still nothing.
DO YOU MEASURE 12 volts from the positive battery cable to ground, then measure from the big bolt on the starter to ground?

If not 12 volts.... Clean and tighten your cables..If so...

Go to the car...turn the headlights on...do they come on..?? then the radio, heater, wipers, dome lights, etc...If all come on then your links are / Should be good...

you may have a mis-wired the solenoid or have a malfunctioning ignition SWITCH...

If your only getting .44 volts to the HEI , and nothing else works...then you have OVERLOOKED a fuse link somewhere or possibably a fuse marked ECM or Coil...

IT (The Fuse link,) will be on the 10 gauge lines leading AWAY from the big main solenoid bolt...

somewhere along that line a few inches/feet up the harness Inspect it closely and remove the tape as you go...you should find a burned link..

If you can find no more bad links and it still wont heat up the system, take a jumper cable, clamp one end to the engine block, the other to the battery ground and try it again..If it cranks..you need to follow good ground / bonding guidelines for a vehicle system.

Doc



So at this point, im not sure what to do, if anyone could help that would be great thanks all.
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Old 08-15-2005, 05:13 AM
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thanks docvette, ill try what you suggested. The wipers did come on, i dont have headlights or a radio hooked up.

I have the 10 guage ignition switch wire connected to the "s" terminal and the positive battery cable on the big connector in between the "s" and "i" terminals. The "S" terminal on the starter does not have 12 volts when i have a voltmeter connected to it and try to start it. The "S" terminal was getting the .44 volts when i tried to start the car.


I tested the HEI power wire and it had .44 volts when i tried to start the car. I dont believe you have to hook up anything to the "I" terminal on starter solenoid for HEI, I thought that was only for points-type distributors with coils.

thanks for all the help.
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Old 08-15-2005, 03:39 PM
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Geeze...

Doc here,

STOP!

1) Take your meter to the big bolt on the starter, set it for 12 volts. Measure it to ground...under any condition.

12 volts or no?

The 10 gauge (usually Red or Black) Wire Should GO to the BIG bolt on the starter with the main cable..It will be the thickest , Smaller gauge wire at the starter (This will hold true if you don't have a single terminal hookup at or near the battery where the battery Cable goes there too)

The "S" Terminal on the solenoid SHOULD be a tan in color wire about 18 gauge in wire size..If the 10 gauge is getting power from the main cable bolt, then this wire will have 12 volts in "START" .

Your HEI is .44 Volts BECAUSE the main 10 gauge wire is on the WRONG terminal.,



This SHOULD be your EXACT starter system...The only wire NOT shown is the 10 gauge that goes back to the ignition switch to power it and the fuse buss...I assume they didn't include it because there are so many ways the wire can enter and leave the system..

For your purpose, just draw a wire from the "NCA, showing 3 fuse links, going back to the "HOT IN RUN at all times " position on the switch..and you will have it, the other two link legs will go to the alternator, and the unswitched (hot at all times ) leg of the fuse buss.

If none of this works out for you, or the wiring dosn't make any sense, You may have exceeded your ability to troubleshoot electrical, and a good Auto electric shop is in order..around here you can usually find one for about $100 an hour.

Doc
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:38 AM
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well i found out that one of the wires in the engine compartment where frayed, so I fixed that and went to start the car and nothing still. I figured what the heck, I'll jump my starter solenoid to the battery terminal on the starter. Cranked over fine. I jumped in my car and turned the key and it turned over! Must have had a dead spot in my starter, which is weird because the guy at the junkyard said he had just rebuilt it.
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Old 08-17-2005, 04:45 PM
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Fix???

Quote:
Originally Posted by zipfactor
well i found out that one of the wires in the engine compartment where frayed, so I fixed that and went to start the car and nothing still. I figured what the heck, I'll jump my starter solenoid to the battery terminal on the starter. Cranked over fine. I jumped in my car and turned the key and it turned over! Must have had a dead spot in my starter, which is weird because the guy at the---->> junkyard<<---- said he had just ---->>rebuilt<<---- it.
Doc here,

Wow...!

Dude..!

does he do BRAKES and suspension too?......

Uhhhhhhhh Well uh.....OK on the fix...I guess...

I don't see that happening unless the starter drive was ENGAGED and stuck against the flywheel..and broke loose...However stranger things happen...

All I can say...Is ..

remember...
Like a good Neighbor..
State Farm is there..
Home /Auto/Flood and FIRE..

(Not an ad..me just being a wise ***...)


Good Luck..
Doc
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:28 PM
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Be sure the ground from your battery to engine is good (clean & tight). Thats over looked so much, just my .02
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Old 08-18-2005, 05:11 AM
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Yeah i double checked the grounds and everything. I even ran another just to make sure because my guages had been jumping around too, so i thought that might have something to do with the grounds? I think today im going to tidy up the wiring harness in the engine bay, and check the whole car for any more little fire hazards. You guys have been a lot of help, thanks a lot.
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:37 PM
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Checks..

Quote:
Originally Posted by zipfactor
Yeah i double checked the grounds and everything. I even ran another just to make sure because my guages had been jumping around too, so i thought that might have something to do with the grounds? I think today im going to tidy up the wiring harness in the engine bay, and check the whole car for any more little fire hazards. You guys have been a lot of help, thanks a lot.
Doc here,

Now there is a good Idea...Just spend a little time, disconnect the battery, remove the old tape and run all those wires down..

Any connections that are powdered white or green, clean or replace, loose or frayed should be addressed , melted connectors should be replaced, anything that looks out of the ordinary should be addressed..

You'll be glad you did it.

Doc
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