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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2013, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Taking it to a body shop for polishing is fine...but...to color sand and buff an entire average car is between 40 and 60 hours ... X ... what ever the shop charges per hour...plus polishing materials etc. You could be looking at a $3,000.00 very quickly. Now, I understand that maybe you weren't looking at cutting and buffing an entire car. The $3,000.00 example will give you an idea of how fast the cost of this type of work adds up and the cost of a polisher in the scheme of things is not that much and will pay for itself on the first job.

Maybe wait another 2 or 4 weeks until the cash is saved for that polisher too.

Ray
well now that u put that cost into perspective for me , i think saving up for my own buffer/polisher is a great idea lmao

the shop in town quoted me 6,500 for a paint job on this car , and that was with me bringing them the car with the body work done and ready for primer/paint
so nwo that u posted that im sure just the polish job would be alot of money by itself

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Old 06-09-2013, 09:41 PM
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Doing paint and body work is not cheap...doing it properly can be frigg'in expensive. Many people, most people that have never done this type of work before can't understand why it would cost that much. Then they do it themselves and they start to realize that there is a reason the prices are what the prices are and a whole new respect for the "Body Man" and "Painter" is formed. Another personality trait that is discovered by the owner and now the technician is the difference between a painter and an applicator...a persons with the attitude, the aptitude, the patience and the passion for this craft will set themselves above the bar and continually try and raise it...the applicator puts paint on.

If you're not to sick of sanding by the time your car is done, there is money to be made polishing and your material costs aren't astronomical.

Ray
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:58 PM
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get your polishing done while your still young it kills your back I hate but I still remember when I loved it...I wish I knew a good buffer...
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:54 PM
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ok heres the majority of my body work i need to do

first up this is the big one the passenger side door



my first thought was hammer and dolly from the backside , but its not possible
thoughts on using bodyfiller to straighten out the panel?

2 holes in the rear deckild

thats a piece of cake for me to fix


align gas door properly

fix front fender and leading edge of door so they lighn up properly

should be a piece of cake

and the last bigest piece of body work fix this dent in the ds rear quarter ,
luckily this one i can get to the entire backside of the panel with a hammer/dolly



as u can see the rest of the car is fairly straight and needs minor work
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:15 PM
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opps heres the pic of the rear quarter
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:21 PM
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And your fortunate, no T tops, they where one of the weakest points on this generation of Camaro. For those areas that you can't get at from the back side...would you have access to a uni spotter, or a pin spot welder. If not, "Harbor Freight" has been known to sell them for around $100.00....again, more outlay than you hoped for but would save you time and energy, not to mention the quality of the finished repair. Filler would work....I wouldn't recommend it...just to much filler when roughing it out properly is within the realm of possibility. Your car for, all intense and purposes is going to be painted Black. The amount of forgiveness you'll get with not straight body work is minimal. Damn this stuff gets costly but the car does look sound and worth the effort and investment.

Ray
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:40 PM
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my buddy may actually have one of those pin spot welders, if not my uncle showed me a trick with a tig welder and special rod i can use in a pinch

the rear quarter is easy accessible with a hammer and dolly and im confident i can get that straight enough ill need minimal filler

the door is a lil rough the crease is deeper then what shows up in the picture , im sort of afriad that the metal is to streched that even pulling it its still going to need a bunch of filler . but pulling it as much as possible then using less body filler seems like a good much better idea

on a crease that long would u apply body filler as is or would u put a few small holes in the crease for the filler to grab into?

i have to try to save that door like i said earlier the doors on this car do not sag one bit any used door i get is going to have hinge pins that are worn the hell out and i dont want to deal with that

yeah dont mind the mismatched rims i needed rear tires to pass inspection and i didnt have acess to my friends tire machine to put the tires on the centerline rims at the time , im going to keep those 80's centerlines on the car , they look really good when cleaned up and polished
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:52 PM
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Any time you can move the metal back to or close to what it originally was...never put holes in a panel for filler to "grab onto". Filler grabs quite nicely without holes and without holes, any moisture around the repair area will not become a concern down the road. Filler is a sponge and will hold moisture long enough to cause corrosion, so if you have holes, weld them up.

Good luck Bud...please keep us informed...I love to see hard diligent work get rewarded and I'm confident you can make this Camaro stand out.

Ray
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Old 06-10-2013, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Any time you can move the metal back to or close to what it originally was...never put holes in a panel for filler to "grab onto". Filler grabs quite nicely without holes and without holes, any moisture around the repair area will not become a concern down the road. Filler is a sponge and will hold moisture long enough to cause corrosion, so if you have holes, weld them up.

Good luck Bud...please keep us informed...I love to see hard diligent work get rewarded and I'm confident you can make this Camaro stand out.

Ray
thanks didnt knwo that about body filler , have just heard of ppl using wire screen or holes to make it stay on better, im assuming ppl who do this are the ones slapping it on 1/2 inch thick to hide big dents

im excited to get this done i think the black cherry will make the car stand out when ppl pay attention to it , but to the average person taking a glance at the car wont really notice it.ive even though about putting a flat rs hood on the car if i cant fix the z-28/iroc hood thats on it now

and thats exactly what im after with this car, the car sounds stock looks pretty stock , but is far far from it in the hp dept , the only giveaway i really want is when i bolt the parachute on the back for the dragstrip.all the badging and emblems are comming off the car as well

i am almost done fabricating the chute mount its hidden under the rear bumper using a trailer hitch i slide in the mount/stand and bolt it tn place to mount the chute
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:53 AM
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Hold on now ,first things first.....
the first thing I noticed is its white then what looks like big spots where the paint is coming off...Gm had a problem with white not sticking well so before you get started get a razor scraper and try scraping the paint off if it comes right off you may have to strip it before doing anything...
Those doors are plentiful at the Upic it yards and for about 50.00 and a bit of luck you can get one thats nearly perfect (I just bought one for my Iroc) You'll want to replace the pins and bushings in the hinges before you get going with bodywork and while the doors are off you might as well paint the door jambs and back side of the door the color your painting the car.Color change can be a PITA and a lotta work ....Then you'll want to remove and paint the backside of the hood and deck plus the jambs ...Personally I think white looks great on these cars with the semi black trimming,so think hard on it before changing the color not to mention the darker the color the more it'll show any imperfections white always hides imperfections on the other hand these cars have pretty terrible gaps which a darker color will hide and white will make them show more so theres plenty to think about. luckily for you theres plenty of thngs to do before you buy paint one more advantage to white is the cost, solid colors can be a few hundred dollars cheaper if you use a single stage paint which is also much easier to easier to paint ...
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:37 AM
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Hey Mike, as often as we agree, this may be one time that we have a bit of a difference of opinion. I feel that BC/CC is easier to paint, solid color or metallic and or pearl. The reason being that if you have a dirt/dust problem in Base Coat, simply allow the Base Coat to flash, remove the imperfection by wet sanding with 600 grit wet and apply more Base Coat over the troubled area. When the car is covered with an even coat of Base with all the imperfections removed and recoated...apply the clear coat. Any problems in the clear coat can generally be cut and polished out. If you have a dirt problem in a solid color Single Stage, you need to allow the Single Stage to cure, cut the imperfection out and polish. Then if the dirt in the Single Stage is of a darker nature (especially in White) it is permanently in the finish unless it is recoated with more Single Stage to cover the imperfection.

I do agree that White on these cars with a darker accent color is a good look. I also agree that GM did have an adhesion problem with White in the mid 80's...as well as Blacks, Reds, Blues, Greens, Yellows, Metallic Colors, Pearl Colors...GM, along with Ford and Chrysler had major adhesion problems in this era, regardless of color. Often the substrate from the factory was also suspect and your advice to check the adhesion with a razor blade to see if the original paint can easily be removed is very sound. If this was my vehicle, the car would be stripped...for my own piece of mind.

Mike, you also addressed another issue that should be a concern to the OP and that is color change. To achieve a true color change from White to Black Cherry requires twice the work of simply painting a car. To do it properly the Hood, Doors and Deck Lid should be removed, the underneath (Hood and Deck Lid), inside panels (Doors) and the jambs, Fender lips and Trunk lips should be pre-painted with the color of the exterior of the car. This still leaves the engine compartment and firewall the original color from the factory...White...and will be extremely noticeable when the hood is opened. All these things should be considered when attempting a color change.

Used doors are plentiful and can be purchased at a reasonable price from most any wrecking yard. Before attempting any repairs, this is an option that should be looked into. Sometimes replacing a part is more economical than trying to repair the part. This would make even more sense if a complete color change (painting the inside and underneath of all panels) was part of the plan.

On another personal note...I hate painting White. White paint will hide a multitude of sins with respect to the straightness of the body work but I go what I call "Snow Blind". I have a problem seeing where I'm going or seeing where I've been. Sometimes when I've painted a large area White, I've needed to "Trust The Force" and rely on experience more than real time visual to get even flow.

I hope this post hasn't created confusion in the OP's mind but these are all things that need to be taken into consideration when painting a vehicle. I feel it's also better to explain as many pitfalls and potential dilemmas prior to purchasing a boat load of materials and then wishing someone had told him of all the situations that might arise.

I'm sure that there will be more questions, please feel free to ask.

Ray
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:44 AM
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All good points to consider when painting a car. Heres one more...how experianced is the painter???BC/CC is real ez to get into trouble with,mainly I see a lot of guys trying to spray a base way to heavy making it shine like a SS then dump a bunch of clear on ruining everything...rediong that gets expensive Painting a SS (solid color) comes natural to everyone(just spray it like you want it to look) everyone really needs to start off painting with a SSto get the hang of it, then graduate to BC/CC.....It would be different if we were right there watching....all good points though ,thats whats so great about having many pros pointing out many different conciderations what you and I might miss someone else always catches and it makes things so much easier for the guy just starting out...It makes me sick when I think of all the years I wasted learning on my own ,making stupid mistakes . we didnt have the internet then so it was a lot tougher... uphill both ways...
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Old 06-10-2013, 12:36 PM
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And to add to your last comment....-40 degrees Celsius (or Fahrenheit) in a snow storm...LOL.

Your right Mike, much of these tidbits are personal opinion and nothing but nothing is a better teacher than experience. I've been painting for well over 30 years and have had the benefit of learning from many experienced technicians. I've been able to avoid many costly mistakes by listening and made many mistakes by not. The internet and forums such as this one are a great resource for those looking for information, a tool that both you and I never had when we where starting out and we needed to rely on the people that we surrounded ourselves with. Today, the future painters have a leg up so to speak, being able to access the knowledge of experienced professionals, such as yourself, from all over the world. This does help level the learning curve but when all is said and done, it boils down to the same challenges that we had, to be able to maintain the passion for the trade. It seems to me that the best painters are the ones that give a damn, care about the end result and don't need to rely on a rainy day to deliver a paint job to a customer.

With respect to Single Stage being easier than Base Clear, I suppose it's a matter of opinion. The first paint job I ever did was Base Clear (my father in-laws car). I did all the prep work, the painter at the shop I was working at was supposed to come in after hours and paint it. He didn't show (fell asleep in front of the TV), so I took the vast knowledge of painting I had at the time (painting inside fenders, doors, etc.) and painted the car. It turned out well and after that, I wanted to paint more, trying to improve with every job. Maybe my opinion would be different if my first complete with Base Clear hadn't turned out Okay...what it did do was instill the passion, to become more creative and strive to put out the best paint job possible. I have painted thousands of vehicles in my career and in all those vehicles I can honestly say that only two of them, after I was done, I could look at and feel that a polisher wouldn't do anything to improve the finish. I feel a good painter is also a painter that is more critical of his own work than anyone else. My passion is still there, the day that passion leaves me is the day I leave the trade.

Ray
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2013, 02:22 PM
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those spots u see are were the po had sanded and sprayed white spray paint on the car , i know the problem u are talking about though, my silverado in the picture next the camaro has the white peeling off , it comes off so easy i could use a razor blade to strip the whole damn truck , took me all of 5 mins to strip a portion of the hood on that thing

my friend doesnt hve experience painting a whole car but i have seen some of the collision work he has done , most notably an olds alero that he picked up and fixed, car needed a front fender/hood/front bumper and lights. the car was a gold metalic color, i think they call it champagne metalic .

he painted the new hood/fender/bumper and they look great i cant even tell that the parts have new paint on them compared to the rest of the car, it matches dam well. so im confident he can spary the car for me

the plan is to remove the rear hatch/decklid and also the door panels/seals trim etc so when the car is painted it will look like it came that color

under the hood is going to get done with a half gallon of gm chassi restoration paint that i have laying around its liek a semi gloss black while it wont match it will be much better then whats there/not painting it at all . and when i put the sb427 in the car at that point maybe ill spray the engine bay the same color as the rest of the car


my gf wants me to do a blue pearl in the black instead of a red , im kinda stuck on the black cherry though , but if it comes down to keeping her happy so i dont hear about how much im spending on the car blue pearl it will be


btw i hate white on these cars , or any single color for that matter, i thnk they look so much better with a metalic type finish

edit i agree on the doors being plentiful back home in the junkyards , but out here in utah there arent many 3rdgen camaros to begin with , used parts are not easy to come by , and if it came down to changing the door id rather get a set of fiberglass street doors , which is nothing more then a race door with a steel support/crash bar in it
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:54 PM
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i almost forgot do u guys have a recomended brand of body filler ?
i plan on ordering up some supplies to get started tommorow when i get paid ,sanding stuff bodyfiller the epoxy primer etc
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