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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2011, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntnyL
If the patch was MIG welded, that is the problem, imo. The MIG weld is very hard compared to the surrounding metal. Expansion/contraction rates are different.

TIG welded panels won't exhibit this problem.
I just heard Stacey David say the exact same thing on an episode of Gearz. He mentioned that it's best to MIG weld close to body lines where more strength exists in the panels when possible. He said a lot of body guys beat themselves up over this trying to figure out what happened. The ghost lines appear in the sun and disappear when it cools down due to the hardness of the MIG weld.

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Last edited by hoffmandirt; 01-07-2011 at 08:59 PM.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2011, 09:16 PM
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I've seen some ghost lines in my travels and yes they bother us more than the average joe cause we're all wanting perfection and we're the ones feeling the fun and pain of
doing it.

Could be excessive primer shrinking in like you said.

Not wanting to put much filler knowing filler is indeed acceptable per scope of the project is the culprit 9 times out of 10. The all metal guys would take it to another level with a vixen file of course and are prolly cringing but bondo is our friend too..
Hindsight being what it is lends itself to help the next guys project as we dissect what happened in this one..
As crazy as it might sound the smaller patches and hole fills like antenna holes seem to be the most challenging..
When the panel is heated it grows "bigger" and applying a cold wet rag can shrink it back "down"as you go and one would want think it's back "flat" but there always seems to be more metal than when it started.
A solution is to "pencil" in this grow effect and tap the edges down a little first and let the patch be the width of a cut-off wheel smaller so it has room to move as it now is getting hot for its first time. It was cold when drawn out and is about to get bigger too. Then accept the extra bit of filler afterwards in order to really bridge the area out further into the panel even tapping it lowwer as needed, check with a straight edge etc.

If theres a enough clear you just might be able to flat sand and buff lines away in another 30 days but it would be your call

Then theres the "V"Buttt weld to help the thread keep rolling
http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthread.php?t=2751

http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthr...0&page=1&pp=20

Last edited by milo; 01-07-2011 at 09:24 PM.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2011, 11:00 PM
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good info being posted about the hardness of the weld and that expanding differently than the surrounding metal. its something i have thought about but i really had no idea, just a thought. im not going to lie, im not the best at bodywork since i rarely do it. i spend all day in and out of the booth. one of the filler panels that i had to skim with duraglass first probably has about a quarter inch of total material over the welds, then it feathers down just beyond that. held up fine through the rest of last winter after i finished it, and the 100+ degree summer but some ghost lines popped up when in the sun. i blocked and buffed them out once and it helped some. it amazes me that with that amount of fiberglass filler then a skim of icing over a patch that has no gaps between the welds ghost lines can still appear when sitting in the sun. and the door handle pocket is still behind the patch panel so nothing was even cut from the door itself
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:41 PM
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one more question ill throw out there since its on topic.

what are the best ways to make sure primers fully shrink up when doing work like this in winter time? temps are in the high 20's outside. i have been leaving my parts under a medium wave heat lamp while im at the shop. surface temp of the panels under the lamp are 100ish degrees. would there be any benefit to leaving the panels outside on a sunny day so the primer gets a UV treatment or is that useless since the panel temps will be very cold. trying to do whatever i can to make sure everything shrinks well before final prep and paint. had a couple sand scratch areas show from the respray last winter once warm weather hit but after reading more and more about shrinkage on here i know that was from me not giving the primer anywhere near enough time/heat to fully dry all the way through.
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Old 01-08-2011, 02:05 AM
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The best method to avoid shrinkage in your work is to first get your body work finished properly prior to priming. When priming, donít apply more than two coats and let cure overnight prior to finish sanding. After proper masking and prepping I then seal all primed areas with variable shade sealer before painting.

Iíve seen where some people sand with too course a sand paper then lay 2k primer on like it was sprayable filler and wonder why they get shrinkage. Iíve also seen bodywork finished properly and the worker sprayed 2k primer as mentioned in the previous sentence and get shrinkage. Bottom line watch your primer coats, less is better.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2011, 02:01 PM
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i wish i had taken pics when i did it, but i did not. here is a quick sketch to depict what i basically did

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Old 01-08-2011, 02:13 PM
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Yes, I pretty much got the whole picture before your last post.

If I were to correct this what I would do is get take a marker and trace around the ring for reference. Then get two body hammers and using the point of one against the drawn outline and lightly tap with second hammer working it completely around to get the ridge lower. Then reskim your work.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2011, 02:15 PM
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Leaving the pocket in place is not the cause of the problem. The MIG weld is, imo. Sorry for being redundant.
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Old 01-08-2011, 02:22 PM
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i appreciate all the replies, im in the in the process of finishing up the doors. i stripped them down and made sure all of the welds looked proper and everything was ground down right. i have a feeling i didnt grind down the welds enough/fully the last time. against the oem sheet metal they were ground down flat, but against the filler panel they were a little higher. the filler panel must not have been perfectly even with the door skin when i welded. this time i ground them down flush and the oem metal and the patch panel look as one. did some more hammer/dolly work this time around and got the metal much closer than last time so the filler should be much less.
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Old 01-08-2011, 02:28 PM
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Obviously, you've got this under control. Good luck with the repair and do let us know the results, Please.
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Old 01-08-2011, 02:34 PM
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will do. will probably have the body sprayed within the next 2 months. doors are the only bodywork areas that are being fixed, everything else is ready to wetsand and shoot. ill post pics after it sits out in the sun for a few days once done. and hopefully there will be nothing to see but a smooth finish
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Old 01-08-2011, 04:28 PM
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Name calling will not be tolerated here.......first and last warning...

Neither will the smart remarks about cars worth etc......

Keep it technical, if not, the thread gets shut down and suspensions could be handed out
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Old 01-08-2011, 04:32 PM
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I am getting complaints so am closing this thread..leaving the objectionable posts so you guys know what not to do..Policy is to make useful comments only and keep it civil..

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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2011, 08:04 PM
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I have re-opened this thread after some heavy editing. Guys, I have better things to do, like take a nap or watch my Dexter DVDs. One more derogatory (means no good, bad, name calling, immature) post and I suspend that member. Leave the silly arguments for the playground when you're playing dodgeball at the grade school. I will be monitoring this thread and any others I have in my duties, I am more than ready to hand out suspensions. Act like adults, please. OMT, I am sorry you had to close this thread, I should have jumped in earlier. Opinions are just that, opinions. Respect them all until you can put scientific proof on the table. And respect them then, we're all trying to be helpful.
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:27 PM
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What ever, Jesus,this is *** is wrong with this country nowadays. You guys brag you won the free speech lawsuits, But go forbid you say something that disagrees with the program, threats of banning are thrown around...no one can take a ****ing joke anymore or any good natured ribbing.
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