[willys36@aol.com]

Congrats Vince, you are now an official 'glas expert. You will NEVER get raw 'glas parts that fit perfectly. Ever. Welcome to the club!

[baddbob]

I agree, I've never had a glass part that didn't need some fitting mods and straightening. It is amazing how good some of the parts look in bare gelcoat though untill you start working on them.

[willys36@aol.com]

We all get spoiled by the precision and stability of steel. 'Glas parts are made primarily of plastic and even though they may come out of a precision mold in perfect shape, the resin isn't fully cured for several months. Just sitting around for some time will deform them under their own weight. The ideal situation would be to bolt the parts in place as soon as they come out of the mold but that is impossible. Still, when you get the parts, they should be assembled ASAP so they will do their final cure to the proper shape.

[302 Z28]

Originally Posted by willys36@aol.com

Just sitting around for some time will deform them under their own weight.

I can vouch for that, after fitting my front fenders initially they were removed for frame detailing. They were off maybe a month sitting in my garage. When I went to reinstall them it looked as though they were for a different car. The row of bolt holes I had drilled through the flange of the fender through the inner fender panels didn't want to line up any longer. I had to install several bolts and wait a day or to as the fenders reshaped themselves so I could install the remaining bolts.

Vince

[Beenaway2long]

Vince-
I'll trade you the Fiberglass Follies for the Cancer Creeps !?! A straight '39 2 dr sedan.....New floorboards, firewall, inner/outer cowl supports, rockers, trunk, inner wheelwheels (in progress)...

I can't remember where, but I saw something on TV about how they have to spend TONS of time on f-glass to match up body panels. Basically, this guy had to cut about 3' of the NEW fiberglass body on both sides, and widen and area, then use mat to rebuild it. That was just for the fenders/hood. I would have had a coronary. I also saw something where they told you to get it in black, then leave it outside for the summer, as it will cure to the highest heat that it encounters. WHY DOESN"T the mfr. BAKE IT in a jig??

[302 Z28]

Originally Posted by Beenaway2long

I also saw something where they told you to get it in black, then leave it outside for the summer, as it will cure to the highest heat that it encounters. WHY DOESN"T the mfr. BAKE IT in a jig??

Gibbon does say to do this. I did it for a solid week in the heat of a Southest Texas summer when I first got the body. It smelled of resin real bad for a few days and then the smell tapered off. When I first received the body the deck lid was about 1/4" above the contour of the body. I called Gibbon to complain and they told me to set the whole thing out in the sun and the deck lid will pull down. Sure enough, it did.

Vince

[willys36@aol.com]

The worst example of uncured 'glas I have run across was with my buddy's '42 Willys tilt-up front end. It was the first commercial part I had ever dealt with. It was black gel coat and we had it up-side down on a couple of saw horses for a couple of days to install bracing, hinges, etc. When we took it off the horses and turned it over, it had two 3/8" deep 2x4 shaped troughs across it! We were sick to say the least and the company we bought it from did not warn us about the need for post-curing parts. We decided to set the hood on the chassis/body and set it in the sun for a week. That helped harden the resin, the 2x4 grooves popped almost all the way out, and the hood draped onto the body cowl for a tight fit that wasn't there when the hood first arrived. A light coat of Bondo repaired the damage. Looks fine now!

[Henry_Rifle]

I just saw this thread, and my experience was almost identical. I bought a Viper II roller set up for a SBC and 700/R4. After I got the frame all assembled and the motor/trans installed, I tried to drop the body back on. It didn’t fit. The trans tunnel hit the trans at the firewall, and the floor hit the 4th gear solenoid. Also, where the floor pan joined the body, the whole mess was unfinished with raw ‘glass edges everywhere. The driveshaft tunnel wasn’t large enough for the U-joint to rotate. I called Kyle, and he offered to fix the problems – of course, I had to take the car back to Darlington from Virginia Beach. I had trailer rental, motel overnight, gas and food, but of course that was on my ticket.

A couple of months later, I did a repeat trip, picked up the car and brought it back. The floor still hit the solenoid on the trans. The so-called repair they did to the firewall and trans tunnel raised the car up by about ¼”, which hosed up the fit of the hood and radiator shell. I had to re-do it all.

I have found that the glass varies in thickness from about ¼” to well over ¾”. It’s so thick where I mounted my tail lights that I can’t put the nuts on the studs to hold them in place. Extensions, I guess. The window moldings were junk. It took me a week to re-glass and bondo them and find a way to attach them to the doors.

The wood package tray across the back was 1-1/2” out of level from one side of the car to the other. The wood bracing in the trunk was glassed in at all angles, and I had to shim the heck out of it on order to attach wood panels to upholster. I could go on, and on, and on – but I won’t.

I bought Gibbon products when Dwight was running the place, and mistakenly figured that the quality would continue. After Kyle took over, Gibbon went to hell in a handbasket. Here’s another problem. Gibbon’s little story about chopper gun glass being better than hand laid is bullbleep. It isn’t more even, it isn’t stronger, it isn’t better. Another problem . . . Gibbon recommends that the car bake in the sun, and that you not paint it dark colors. Here’s what that really means. It means that “We don’t use top notch resin. We use the same stuff they make camper shells from.” Resins have a stability factor related to the temperature they will withstand. The cheap resins start to warp well below 300 degrees. Good resins (like Wescott and Redneck use) withstand much higher temperatures – up to 1000 degrees before they start to warp.

Bottom line, my ’34 Viper will be a fine ride in a few more months – but none of it will be due to the quality of Gibbon products. By the way, Kyle shut down the Darlington shop in January and laid off all the employees. The website is still up, but the phones are disconnected. Before the phones were shut down, there was a message that Gibbon was relocating back to Nebraska. However, the phone number for Gibbon Fiberglass in Gibbon, NE is also disconnected.

Jack Cox
Virginia Beach

[302 Z28]

Sorry to hear about your problems Jack. It sounds like my car all over again. I should have sent mine back to Gibbon, but I was too far along (in my mind) to do that. I am approaching the paint phase of my project, but it has been painfully slow. I have been through 2 gallons of polyester resin reinforcing areas, extending the gas tank cover and extending inner fender panels. I bad mouth Gibbon every chance I get, and I never mis an opportunity. I am not surprised Gibbon is closed, if that is the case. I like to think I had a hand in that. I have seen a number of other bodies under construction since I have purchased mine and it has struck me how mine is deficient in a lot of places. If it were not for the perfection of my chassis I would have given up long ago. Like you I have also discovered places where the wood reinforcement was haphazardly placed. I have corrected all those areas. Luckily my doors fit well and they required little work. I am not exaggerating when I say I have had my front fenders, grill, and hood off and on so many times I am sick of it. Finally I have achieved a fit that is acceptable, but far from perfect. I have a minimum of about 200 hours in my deck lid, trying to even up the gaps and cleaning up the opening. Lots of raw glass that has to be smoothed up and will show when the deck lid is open. My window moldings are also junk, or close to it.

Hang in there on your project, it takes a huge amount of work. Luckily I have some very capable people in my area to assist me. One of our club members has a 32 5 window coup that is a Flatlanders body. He also had a huge problem with that body. I did not see it being built, but he has told me I am experienceing the same things he did Eventually I will be at the point where I am ready to lay the paint on, but my wife doesn't think that is going to be anytime soon. It will be 2 years in November since I took delivery of the car.

PM me and we can bad mouth Gibbon.

Vince

[Henry_Rifle]

Strange coincidence. I picked up my body in Darlington in late October, 03, and Kyle had the trailer loaded with a couple of bodies for delivery somewhere.

Jack

[302 Z28]

Originally Posted by Henry_Rifle

Strange coincidence. I picked up my body in Darlington in late October, 03, and Kyle had the trailer loaded with a couple of bodies for delivery somewhere.

Jack

Probably one was mine. When the truck arrived at my house he had two 34 bodies on the trailer. When we were finished unloading mine we got to talking. He said he was headed next to Ohio to drop off the other body. He said it had been returned to Gibbon.

Vince

[jcclark]

Originally Posted by willys36@aol.com

Still, when you get the parts, they should be assembled ASAP so they will do their final cure to the proper shape.

That may be true for fit-up but for paint it's another thing.
I painted a couple of fenders soon after getting them and boy did
they shrink down later on. The fiberglass telegraphed through all over.
I guess ideally we'd bolt them on for a summer season then paint em.
Oh, by the way, talking about fit-up problems, my fenders had round
holes where I needed square ones. You could see the outline of the
original square ones made by the mold so I grond them out with a
Dremmel tool. They were also too thick for the factory square clips to
fit so I had to grind the area thinner.
I think I'll stick with the steel ones from now on.

[Classix_Lover]

Ughhh, all these posts about how difficult some fiberglass panels, etc. are to deal with makes restoration newbies like myself tremble . I do think about swapping out some panels for fiberglass ones to shed a little weight and even out the weight throughout the car but now I know what I'm getting myself into. Surprisingly, I never knew that you had to spend much time prepping it even though it looks like it's ready to be installed and painted(apparently not, quality my ***..) even though I did know you have to tweak it to fit. I'll take jc's experience with painting the fiberglass before the resin cured completely and wait for them to cure before I even think of painting them. Much appreciation for the people on this post helping newbies like me out with some of the more difficult aspects of body work.

~Tommy

[302 Z28]

Originally Posted by Classix_Lover

Ughhh, all these posts about how difficult some fiberglass panels, etc. are to deal with makes restoration newbies like myself tremble .

~Tommy

When I hear someone refer to my 34 as a "kit car", I want to stomp a mud hole in their #@*. They haven't the foggiest about what they speak. As if all you have to do is bolt it together and paint it...and voila.

Vince

[Henry_Rifle]

The reason for slow curing and mat print-through is poor materials and poor workmanship. A properly constructed glass car will be fine. The real problem is that many 'glass builders use general purpose resin for their bodies. Think camper shell. These general purpose resins do not have a high Heat Distortion Factor (HDF), sometimes called Temperature Distortion Point (TDP) - generally less than about 160 degrees. Someone who knows their stuff will use a high quality resin with a HDF of more than 250 degrees. Redneck claims a 1000 degree TDP.

The second factor is resin to catalyst ratio. It should be 1 - 3%. Too little catalyst, and the body never cures. Too much, and it becomes brittle.

The third factor is fiber to resin ratio. If there is too little fiberglass mat and too much resin, the body will crack or warp because the mat and the resin have different expansion ratios. The body should be 45% - 55% glass mat.

Here are some things to think about when buying a glass body or part:

1. Ask the manufacturer about the HDF (or TDP), ratio of glass to resin, and ratio of catalyst to resin of his product. If he can't give you an immediate answer, don't buy from him.

2. If he tells you that you shouldn't paint your car a dark color, find another supplier. (guess what Gibbon said)

3. Ask him if he uses chopper guns or hand-laid. I'd never buy another chopper gun car. (Guess what Gibbon used)

I wish I had known this before I bought my Gibbon body. I am actually dreading the time I have to park my painted car in the Virginia sun. Even though it's yellow, I am nervous. If I'd had any sense at all, I'd have bought the same P&J chassis I got from Gibbon, but I'd have put a Redneck body on it.

Here's my progress so far. In a couple of weeks, I'm going to clear out the garage and start on bodywork and paint.

http://www.members.cox.net/otb_vigil...etrod/rod.html