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Give me some ideas on prepping this thing

22K views 139 replies 12 participants last post by  deadbodyman 
#1 ·
Got a body here with about 50% peeling CC and 50% still in great shape. Its the original factory paint on the whole car.

Bad idea just to take the peeling parts down to factory primer and scuff the good parts and then shoot epoxy over everything? Do they even need to go all the way to primer or just get all the peeling CC off?

Trying to figure out the most cost effective, time and money, way to do this. But I definitely dont want any kind of failure later on.

Ideas greatly appreciated!! :thumbup: Sorry for the low quality pics

Andy




 
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#3 ·
That would be a safe route it seems to me. On the initial DAing down to the primer you would use 320?

How about if I did like you say, go down to primer with 220 or 320, put on 2 or 3 good coats of epoxy and block THAT out up to 600...then go bc/cc.

Trying to figure it all out
 
#9 ·
I do these peelers all the time,I think the two main causes are #1 the sun and #2 thin clear.
You hve a few options first off its hard to tell from just a pic but the cheapest and fastest way is to only do the top surfaces (that Irock decal might be a little pricey) and from the molding down looks pretty good.
so start with a razor scraper and carefully scrape ALL the clear of,if there are stubburnd spots sand those with 320 getting the clear offdone this way theres no need for a sealer just base it and clear it,that little strip between the T-top and the rear glass is ez and the deck is pretty short so that wont take much time but the hood is a different story that might take a while with 320...basicly you dont have to sand ALL the clear off just sand it until it starts feathering nicely.
if you have a lot of dents or dings and if the clear isnt cooperating sanding with 180 is much faster but you'll have to seal it with a good epoxy(SPI reduced about 20-30 % works great)once the top surfaces have been epoxied then sand with 320 If you want to paint the whole car all it needs is 320 and shoot no need for any sealer of any sort on the sides unless you do a lot of dent and ding work on them.
If you use a razor scraper BE CAREFULL not to gouge the surface or or all bets are off... theres a few tricks to using the scraper like honing the new blade on glass and good quality blades ...I use them all the time without any gouges but it takes some experiance and technique I find most guys need help using razor blades so try it in a few spots and see if its working for you but for heavens sake dont keep going and gouge or scratch up the whole car then you'll be in trouble,so be very careful and if you have any question just ask, theres some other little tricks too..
 
#11 ·
Andy, If it where my car I'd take the whole car to bare metal for several reasons.

#1) I agree with previous posts that it's the elements that caused the clear to come off and the lower parts still "look" good but what happens if the degeneration of the clear has already started and a year or 2 from now that clear underneath your fresh paint lets go...Your the guy who painted it and will take the blame.

#2) It's going to take a day at the most and even on a bad say $30.00 worth of material...cheap insurance.

#3) Take the car down to metal, if you DA the car down to primer only chances of getting wave is much more likely and I saw the reflection in your Nova, it was straight and that's what you want. The car, from what your saying is straight right now, SPI and a little blocking will keep it that way. The red on your car is a fairly dark color...and you know what dark colors and any imperfection in the body are going to look like in the end.

#4) The only paint jobs that people ever talk about are the really good ones and the really bad ones. The nice thing about that situation is you get to decide what people say and think of your work and it's always easier to get more work when they say good things about it.

Take the little extra time and do it properly so you know what you have when your done. Even Ford under their paint warranty programs in the 90's paid to strip the entire vehicle, they didn't do it because they liked to give money away, they did it because they didn't want the problem to come back and bite them a year or two down the road.

Hope this helps
Ray
 
#12 ·
check how the grit is affecting the scratch as well. It will tell you a lot about the adhesion. I also like to take door, hood, decklid edges down to at least primer or bare metal. If you block it out really nice with a 240 or maybe even a 220, you can go back over the whole car with a DA and an interface pad with 320 then again with 400-600.

The main thing is finding what needs to be fixed. I usually clean the car really good, get a good light on it, then sight down the sides of it. Then I fix what I can see by blocking on it and filling. If it's a new car with one paint job(assuming) I'll use a da to feather the area and reveal lows and highs, which works great cause you know exactly where to apply filler for tiny stuff, but the DA prep isn't always the best when you have layers and layers of stuff, unless you want to break it open and bring it to metal. Anyhow, Once I got those areas I can visibly see fixed and filled I guide coat the whole panel and see what that tells me. Depending on the color and gloss on the car some more stuff might reveal itself. I'm currently working on a yellow dull superbee, and if you were to look at it before we worked on it you'd never guess filler needed to be added in the areas we applied it to. The color and gloss on the car made it incredibly difficult to find what to repair. I used guide coat and the man next to me didn't. I had to go over everything he did when he wasn't looking...our secret.
 
#14 ·
They never are as straight as one thinks when looking at what appears to be a pristine vehicle...use your hands to feel and especially your eyes to see...what you miss with these tools, guide coat and reflections will show where problem areas are. Find and object in the distance and watch for any distortion in the reflection because after you put shinny clear on the car that's what your going to see.

Ray
 
#15 ·
Thanks guys for the great tips. :thumbup:

I like to get the panels wet with water or W&G and sight to kind of simulate the clear being on the car, and guide coats are always great too.

I think I am going to strip the car to the metal, Ray is right, it won't really take that long and then there wont be surprises later. (Ray told me this days ago btw, and I still persist in looking for the easy way lol) I have lots of time and the epoxy I want to use is $100 for 2 sprayable gallons so what the heck right?

But anyway, thanks so much for all the tips on peeling car bodies and how to go about this. I'm sure I'll have more questions along the way.

Andy
 
#18 · (Edited)
I whole heartedly agree but now your talking a weeks or months insted of days and thousands insted of hundreds if the extra time and money is ok and your gonna keep it then by all means thats the way to go.by the way hows the door seals, t-top seals and dew strips? mine are in need of replacement with the exception of the T top seals ,they're in good shape...how about the hinge pins and bushings? with these heavy doors they have to be in good shape too.if your going all the way with it..Then theres the hood and deck struts they're a;ways bad and you dont want to be carring around a stick to hold them up ,it adds up quick ...so some things are more important than perfect long lasting paint job when your on a budget so figure out your budget first and make a battle plan a simple 500.00 job can turn into a big can of worms real quick. It all depends on what you plan to do with it...Go all the way if you can and your going to keep it or sell it for top dollar (its worth it) but if your just going to drive it a while and sell it thats a whole different ball game...
Hey get a load of this....I just bought another one,its black, I'll pick it up in the morning and post some pics ....1,500.00, its another TPI tire melter. turn the key and drive away.....
 
#19 ·
10-4 Dead... hear ya on all points. I know things can add up quick, I'm going to keep a log of all my time and materials. Mainly just need to get another paint job under my belt and more experience. Im not going to get crazy with it, going to photo document everything and materials used just in case I do decide to sell later. You got me feeling bad now, I gave $2600 for this one, maybe I screwed up. But it is 100% stock, so I guess that helps the value some. Most of these cars are butchered up in one way or another.
 
#22 ·
2600 isnt bad at all,look at it this way you'll send THAT on ANY run of the mill daily driver needing paint. BUTT what you have is (forget that its an Iroc) is a nice stock car with a great interior and LOW milage so ANY car with a great interior and low milage WITH a decent paint job is worth 3500 -4500 so you can saftly invest 900.00 in materials (labor is always free) and when it done you'll have made 1,000... BUT THIS is an Iroc so all done up like new it's worth at least 10,000 to the right buyer...I just saw an 89 all orig all factory with 48000 mi at a car lot for 10,000 it was garage kept and in beautiful shape. So really I dont think you can loose...if you go SPI all the way you can get all the top shelf materials well under 1,000.00 and that'll leave you with enough money left over for tape ,paper,sand paper and everything else.
PLEASE do yourself a big favor and dont skimp on the materials when your going all the way,I see this all the time ,guys strip to the metal and use cheap epoxy, cheap 2k build primer and cheap base and clear thinking thier ahead ,SPI is most defenately what you want all the way if you save a few bucks here and there its not worth it and you can spend twice as much on other top shelf products and get the same quality...I swear by SPI products and always go with them when I want the best..The two things that really stand out are the epoxy primers and the universal clear,the epoxy is simply the best hands down and the clear is every biy as good as glasurat at twice the cost it sprays the same and buffs the same looks like glass right out of the gun and buffs quick and EZ ...that alone is enough to make me a "Dead"icated customer but they have a hotline that can answear any question even a well seasond pro would ask. Every time I've called I've actually talked to the owner Barry and even after 35 yrs in the biz he makes me feel like a newb ,he's that damn smart but hes a regualar guy and NEVER makes you feel like a *******...He even called me one time when he was in my area to invite me to lunch...What a great guy....
JUST DONT PISSEM OFF ,like me, hes always packin...:sweat:
....GO with SPI......
 
#20 ·
I do understand what your saying, resale RED and all but...

I still think that this is the way for him to go....Take pictures of the repaint to show it was done properly. Taking it down to bare metal is more work no doubt but, the end results are much better and like I mentioned, at least he knows and the perspective new owner knows what's underneath the new paint that he spent a fair amount of money on. It's time more than cost, the difference in cost is minimal considering the result difference...Plus factoring into the equation, all the experience he's going to get.

Even if he wants to sell it...In my opinion...it is the best and surest way to get the value of the car back when it's for sale.

Your right with respect to the hood struts and pins and bushings for the doors etc...and when doing a car for resale costs are very important and a budget should be put in place...I couldn't agree more in that regard.

Post picks of your Black Camaro, love to see them.

Ray
 
#21 ·
That reminds me, car has all new hood and hatch struts!! Hinge pins seem OK, the whole car moves when I lift the doors and I dont feel the play in the hinges that I have felt on other cars. I need to spend a little more time investigating and making sure the bushings are good. T top doesnt leak at least with a low pressure spray. New seal around rear hatch. The PO, did do alot of work to the car, mainly tune up maintenance stuff... I have a long list of fixes he did. And hes a real mechanic, not a backyard one like me...so thats a GOOD THING
 
#26 ·
Yeah I kinda like the stuff a bit,but you gotta understand something....we've been gettin screwed royaly by the big boys for years, they raise the prices, it seems like every week. Barry keeps his prices as low as he possibly can and apoligizes once a year when he HAS to go up a few bucks.
Give him a call ....you'll see...I know I sound like I own stock in SPI and Ospho but I dont, I'm just a workin slob with a big mouth when it comes to my top choices......Plus I'm drinkin a few beers tonight.....:drunk:
..................Mike ....
 
#27 ·
Well ,I just picked up an 86 Iroc yesterday,the paint is in a lot worse shape so I'll be stripping it down also...This is some kind of dark metalic mabee blackmet,I'll be going straight black on this one,but firsy I gotta do a quick tune up on it...I'll be doing all the same work you are start to finish..Removing all thr rubber and plastic is the first step.:thumbup:
 
#29 ·
Hey Andy, I wouldn't buy a cheap sandblaster for cleaning rubber bumpers, although a sandblaster is never a bad idea for other parts. I've used plastic stripper, a product available from several manufacturers, I used Marhydes aerosol with good results. You could remove the paint with a DA and a light abrasive like a 280 or 320, but, be careful, plastic isn't that solid and making a mess is quite possible. Another way is brake fluid, brush it on, let it sit for a few hours, remove the paint and thoroughly wash, clean and dry your bumpers. Whenever stripping bumpers be careful, try a small unnoticeable area first, just to get the feel and effect, when comfortable move on to entire piece.

Hope this helps Andy

Ray
 
#31 ·
Everyone has the right idea. In the past I have painted a few cars with this same problem. Sand down to the primer with 80 grit. Go back over the car with 180 grit. Be careful along the edges. Run water over the car in sections and look for any imperfections that may occur. Water will high light any imperfections or deep scratches that may show up after your base coat. Prime the car with three coats of a water base etching primer. This will take care of any spots you sanded thru to bare metal by accident. Add another coat on all the edges of every thing such as wheel wells, door jams. Think you know want I mean. By using a water base primer you will be covering the old paint and primer and should have no lift off off the old material. Water base is a God saver if you don't know what was sprayed before. Make sure you wipe down the areas you are going to primer with a good cleaner and rags. Your paint shop can recommend what to use. Once you have the primer down, you can start sanding with 320. Ask your paint shop for the product data sheets for the type of paint you are going to lay down, ei: Flssh times between coats, size of spray nozzle, ect... Each maufacturer has their requirements that need to be adhered to. Once you lay down the top coat follow the instructions for applying the clear coat. If you are spraying at home in the garage you should check with your city and find out what restrictions they may have so you don't have a nosy neighbor calling in on you. Most shops these days are going to a waterbase material due to environmental issues. It goes on thinner and will require additional coats. If you have NEVER sanded with a DA, I would recommend you block sand by hand after laying a guide coat down in getting the primer ready for your base coat. It will take a bit longer but you won't have waves were you sanding a little more than other areas. The guide coat will reveal any high or low spots you may want to take care of before the base coat. Sand in the directon of the panels. Mainly front to back, never cross hatch or sand the guide coat in anX pattern. Never sand using just your fingers either. Use a backing pad or a foam pad that will help apply even pressure. If you have any questions fell free to call me at 682-227-3095
 
#32 ·
I will add a little info here as well about the SPI epoxy. This is a real nice epoxy primer that is sandable, and is all I use now. I have just started using it as a finish blocking primer after the spray poly is done instead of the 2K urethane primers. The other thing I have noticed about it is this stuff goes a real long way . I use quite a bit of it and have not had any type of problems with it at all. Trust me you will love it. Have always used the high end PPG DPLF epoxys and wont use it any more..............................................as a side note to USMC not real sure what you mean by never sand in an x pattern when blocking, that is the ONLY way you should be blocking in.
 
#33 ·
Just read the last few posts...I agree with Mr.4speed...always sand in an X pattern, it's the proper way to level a high or low spot. Not only will you get rid of the spot, it will sand faster when you keep sanding against the grain. I usely sand in one direction for about 8 to 10 strokes and then reverse my pattern in an X pattern right across the entire panel to make sure the panel stays and or gets straight removing all highs and lows.
 
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