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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwhiteduke View Post
If I do that, and the bad side is aim towards the intake, does that exercise/result indicate a intake leak?

I'll take a closer look at the seals.

Thankyou



Duke
It would be telling on the intake valve guides or seals (less likely to be the exhaust side) for passing oil. If it were to be the intake gasket, say, I wouldn't think they'd ALL show the same amount of fouling and on both sides equally, and it wouldn't be as well defined where the good and bad sides of the plugs are.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 12:50 AM
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Sorry- I just now was able to see them enlarged. It looks like the others have said- not all are bad and the worse ones could be from a leaking gasket. I'd still want to see if they're pointing right at a guide, though.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 12:51 AM
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Those are cool lookin cars. Sort of a Nova with style, and curves like a Maverick. Love the shark gills fender vent.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 12:54 AM
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I think you may find the cylinders are scuffed. Rings butted at some point.
The inspection camera will see it. 11.5:1 is pretty agressive for pump gas.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 12:55 AM
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I changed the settings a bit. 6 and 7 look the worse to me, some oil on others as well. Some of the deposits could even be from the over abundance of ZDDP. Octane booster will sometimes ash up the plugs depending on the product. Hopefully the oil fouling didn't cause detonation bad enough to pinch the rings in the lands. I don't think it did but it would be nice to get a good look at the bores as suggested...


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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jokerZ71 View Post
My Dad use swear the sun wouldn't rise if he didn't add a can of STP @ every oil change.LOL.After all,Richard Petty said to do it.It had to be good for it.When we tore down the 390 out of his 70 LTD,it wuz 1 of the cruddiest nastiest engines,i've ever seen.The Quaker State Non-Detergent prolly helped out with that also.He thought the valve cover gaskets were shot becuz they were leaking,but,the drainback holes were completely stopped up.In another 20 yrs,everything we do now will be wrong & condemned by the by then wiser motorheads.There were also alotta new engines screwed up by Slik 50.
I worded that pretty harshly, I didn't mean to disrespect anyone especially not parents. You make some good points- I forget how convincing the advertising for STP was back then. And my own Dad used it at least a few times when it first came out. And we even did the screwdriver "test" lol.

Talk about snake oil salesmen- how convincing were (are?) the Slick50 infomercials?!? Haven't seen one of them for quite some time now, I seem to recall some sort of fedgov restrictions put on them but I could be mistaken. But anyone who can convince the public their concoction will soak right into solid steel has to be good. And the stuff is still on the shelves... and it ain't cheap by any means.

And I also agree there's little doubt future gearheads will scoff at much of what we hold as gospel!
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
Those are cool lookin cars. Sort of a Nova with style, and curves like a Maverick. Love the shark gills fender vent.
Thanks, I get folk calling in asking ' do you want to sell your car ' regularly.

It gets old...

These cars are very rare here now and people are asking stupid prices for them, even in trashed condition, and stupid people are actually paying the prices. Go figure??

I'd trade mine in the blink of an eye for a RHD (right hand drive) 67 or 68 camaro

I guess it's a case of what u got vs what u want. I LOVE American cars, as does any Aussie h/rodder here.

I don't see what all the fuss is about, prolly cause I've owned mine since 1978, it's a 1968 model. But I do love it and people treat me like a hero, just cause I got one. Don't get me wrong, for me it's just normal, I drive it like I did back in the seventies, it's just 'my car' , it annoys me how people make such a fuss. Often times I go out of my way to avoid the fuss - sounds stupid, I know, but I just want to go about my business without being annoyed. I'm not being anal, but that's how it is...

Not sur if the shark gills actually serve any practical function , I guess they do, but they do look cool.

Thanks for your help.



Duke
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
I changed the settings a bit. 6 and 7 look the worse to me, some oil on others as well. Some of the deposits could even be from the over abundance of ZDDP. Octane booster will sometimes ash up the plugs depending on the product. Hopefully the oil fouling didn't cause detonation bad enough to pinch the rings in the lands. I don't think it did but it would be nice to get a good look at the bores as suggested...

I haven't used any octane booster. I've heard that's a load of crap. One point really equal .1 of a point. Haven't needed it. Our premium fuel here is pretty darn good, and I haven't detected any pinging, at least not my ears.
I'm putting my money on too much ZDDP in the oil mix. - my bad.

The engine runs strong to 6500 , I haven't take it past that and haven't had the need to.

I'll pull it down if necessary to sharpen up the bores with new rings , don't matter to me, it's a fun car and I want it running sweet.

I'm seriously considering the BonAmi option, I'm not joking, if that is a viable solution. It would be a WHOLE lot quicker and much less expensive trial if there were no adverse consequences to the engine if it didn't work. I wonder if anyone has really tried this? How much BonAmi ? Do I mix it with fuel and pour it in?
What is the procedure?

I live and learn ...



Duke
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
I worded that pretty harshly, I didn't mean to disrespect anyone especially not parents. You make some good points- I forget how convincing the advertising for STP was back then. And my own Dad used it at least a few times when it first came out. And we even did the screwdriver "test" lol.

Talk about snake oil salesmen- how convincing were (are?) the Slick50 infomercials?!? Haven't seen one of them for quite some time now, I seem to recall some sort of fedgov restrictions put on them but I could be mistaken. But anyone who can convince the public their concoction will soak right into solid steel has to be good. And the stuff is still on the shelves... and it ain't cheap by any means.

And I also agree there's little doubt future gearheads will scoff at much of what we hold as gospel!
I didn't take it that way.I haven't thought about STP & slik 50 til you mentioned the screwdriver test.LOL.I remember him having to take the STP & lay it in front of a heater vent in the winter just to be able to pour it in.That should been the 1st sign that it can't be good for a motor.There's no telling how many used carsalesman kept the stuff by cases.The motor would be fine til the 1st oil change.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 04:43 AM
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I would think if the rings were letting that much oil get by from not seating,you would have noticeable smoke & a good amount of blowby.I would be leaning more to a problem up high.Crushed seals,bad guides,intake gasket,in that order.Dropping a new set of seals in & double ckn the retainer to seal clearance would be a good way place to start.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 08:59 AM
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I had a dealer service bulletin from 1955 or so that was for the then new SBC 265. Apparently the surface finish on the bores was too smooth for the rings, and high oil consumption was the result. Take note that the allowable oil consumption for an engine in 1955 was probably high already LOL. The "fix" was adding something fine to the oil like Bon Ami or powdered aluminum and then draining the oil after a run in. Things were a lot different then.

One of my customers has a Holden Torana that he races in hillclimbs (think pikes peak) and he gets a lot of flak for running that thing as hard as he does.
Heres his Youtube vid:
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 03:14 PM
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Burning Earl

Duke, Plenty of good advice here, but I'd like to add a point or two.

I use an old rule about diagnosing oil burning issues. If the crud is on the piston tops, its the rings. If the crud is on the valve faces, its the valves.

Oil getting into the ports can come from multiple sources. As previously noted,intake gaskets and valve stem seals.

Another place for oil to migrate into the ports is through the rocker studs on some heads. All the studs should have sealant on the threads. Even on assembled heads there is no sealant and the studs are not torqued down. They reason that you'll need to adjust the guide plates, so you have to remove the studs, apply sealant and torque down at the same time you adjust the guide plates. The Sportsman II's have more than one rocker stud hole that gets real close to breaking into the intake port. Read the last line here that says, Attention;
http://www.worldcastings.com/product...f_file-289.pdf

About valve stem seals, I use a positive locking type seal on both the intake and the exhaust stems on any high performance engine I build. Some say its not necessary on the exhaust stems, but with a long duration cam the exhaust port can see a bit of suction during overlap. If the seal is less than adequate, oil can migrate into the chamber on the exhaust stems too. Especially when the top of the head is flooded with oil at higher RPM's.

In closing, I sure hope you didn't wash the rings out when the carburetor was flooding out. Hate to be the butthole to bring that into the picture. Good luck. Nolan
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 04:04 PM
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I haven't thought about the studs.There was a thread not long ago that a guy was having the same problem & it did turn out to be just that.Definitely worth lookin into.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLNOLAN View Post
Duke, Plenty of good advice here, but I'd like to add a point or two.

I use an old rule about diagnosing oil burning issues. If the crud is on the piston tops, its the rings. If the crud is on the valve faces, its the valves.

Oil getting into the ports can come from multiple sources. As previously noted,intake gaskets and valve stem seals.

Another place for oil to migrate into the ports is through the rocker studs on some heads. All the studs should have sealant on the threads. Even on assembled heads there is no sealant and the studs are not torqued down. They reason that you'll need to adjust the guide plates, so you have to remove the studs, apply sealant and torque down at the same time you adjust the guide plates. The Sportsman II's have more than one rocker stud hole that gets real close to breaking into the intake port. Read the last line here that says, Attention;
http://www.worldcastings.com/product...f_file-289.pdf

About valve stem seals, I use a positive locking type seal on both the intake and the exhaust stems on any high performance engine I build. Some say its not necessary on the exhaust stems, but with a long duration cam the exhaust port can see a bit of suction during overlap. If the seal is less than adequate, oil can migrate into the chamber on the exhaust stems too. Especially when the top of the head is flooded with oil at higher RPM's.

In closing, I sure hope you didn't wash the rings out when the carburetor was flooding out. Hate to be the butthole to bring that into the picture. Good luck. Nolan
Nolan, that's a good point, I'll make sure I seal the studs up. I bought the heads bare new and they did need some work to come up to scratch. When I finally got to put the valves in, they didn't seat - didn't pass the vacuum test so had to be cut, and had to machine the guide bosses down to take the inner springs and seals, so it doesn't surprise me.

As far as the flooding goes, the excessive oil use condition was apparent before the flooding issue so I hope that's not the case.

Thanks for the tip



Duke
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
Sorry- I just now was able to see them enlarged. It looks like the others have said- not all are bad and the worse ones could be from a leaking gasket. I'd still want to see if they're pointing right at a guide, though.
Well, I did as you suggested Cabolt, and returned the plugs to their respective holes and marked with a sharpie the inlet valve location, and every single plug had the crud build up lining right up with the sharpie mark...
I then picked the worst cylinder and removed the springs and seals. The o-ring seal was fine, but the Viton seal looks like this (pic). The seal slides through the inner spring with clearance, but somehow seems to have been crushed and split.
Upon measuring the inner diameter of the seal, at the smaller ID ignoring the bevel cut on the inside edge, I get 13.6mm or .535"
and the boss that the seal needs to slide over measures at 14.6mm or .574"
Perhaps I have the wrong seals?

Thanks for ur help,


Duke
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