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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2013, 08:59 PM
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IMO,Sea Foam is 1 of,if not the best,cleaner/decarbonizer,(IDK if that's even a word)on the market.I know this isn't a scientific absolute test,but,I took some spark plugs pretty much like the pics of yours & spray them down with the Sea Foam.It completely dissolved the crud in just a few minutes.It is spose to be a complete fuel system cleaner.I haven't used it in my oil,but, they say it can be used in the crankcase.When oil enters the combustion chamber thru bad seals/guides,it tends to build up on the backs & lower stem of the valves & is pretty much cooked onto them.Sucking it in thru a vacum line is the best way to clean this.After pulling it in,shut engine down for 10 to 15 minutes,then restart & let engine run,or,take a short drive.Kinda get in it & blow it out.Add a bottle to about half a tank of gas to clean your fuel sytem.It would be worth a try.If you still have the scope,take a look when done to see if it helped.Not alotta loss if it doesn't.

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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2013, 09:22 PM
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I think it would be worth a try.I took some spark plugs similar to the plugs in your pics & sprayed them down with Sea Foam.It completely dissolved the crud from the plugs & an air gun blew off the rest.I know that's not a very scientific test.LOL.When oil enters the combustion chamber thru the seals/guides,it accumulates & kinda cooks to the lower stems & backs of the valves.By introducing the Sea Foam thru the vacum line,it gets to this area better to dissolve & loosen the build up.I use about a half bottle this way.After suckin it in,I shut the engine off & let it sit for 10 to 15 minutes,then restart & drive the car.Get on it good & blow it out a couple of times to blow any loose debris from the engine.Pour a bottle into approx half full tank of gas to help clean the fuel system.I think it would be worth a try.If you still have the scope,do a before & after view to see if it helps.I do this approx every other oil change on mine.I've never used it in my oil/crankcase,but,it spose to work as well there............................................. .................................................. .................................................. OOPSY !!! Sorry bout the double post.It didn't show up after I ckd back,so,I rewrote it.I hate it when that happens !!!
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2013, 09:32 PM
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Thanks mate, I'm gonna give it a try - after I fix the seals of course. As you say, can't hurt.

So just pour half the bottle, what, via a funnel? Into the vac hose at base of carby, As fast as the engine will take it? At idle or 2000rpm? Then shut it down ASAP and let it sit for 10 or 15 , then flog it for a while - a good drive...and chuck the rest in/w half a tank fuel.

I can borrow the scope again whenever I need it and ill check the before and after shots.
I'll post back after its done.

Thank you, and everyone else who posted, for all your help.



Duke
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2013, 09:33 PM
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Don't forget to take into account that the pix are magnified by the tool. In the old days we used water or auto tranny fluid at a high idle, 2000-2500 RPM and pore it in till the motor chokes down. Let it get back up to rpm again Do that a couple of times then take another look. Old school but worth a try.

Last edited by Fang16; 10-04-2013 at 09:42 PM.
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2013, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by thinwhiteduke View Post
Should I put the PC seals on the exhaust too?

Should I pull the heads and clean up manually??
How effective is this Sea Foam anyways.
I got the headers unbolted and the dist out ATM but have touched the intake.
I don't want to do half a job.....thoughts?


Duke
I'd at least use the umbrella seals they (used to) come with on the exhaust side.

IMO just removing the crud using sea foam and replacing the seals may not fully address the "why's" of there being crud there in the first place. There's no replacement for physically inspecting/measuring the guides and seats to see what you really have. I don't know what current production Sportsman 2 heads are like but in the past the valve guides have been too loose in some heads. this can cause heads to have eccentric seats as well. I'd check them over carefully and give them what they need- up to and including a fresh valve job and replacement guides (IIRC the factory guides are the cast iron of the head casting).

You can estimate the guide to valve clearance w/the heads still on the engine if you want to go that route before/instead of tearing it down.

FWIW, the MSDS for sea foam says it's made up of isopropyl alcohol, pale oil (mineral oil) and naphtha.

EDIT- Just read your last post, nothing wrong w/trying the easy way first.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2013, 10:09 PM
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Like I said,I use the vac hose from my brake booster.I pour about half a bottle into a bowl like container & dab the end of hose in & out.If draw too much in @ once,your engine will most likely go dead.You want to add slowly.Too much @ once could hydrolock the motor.That would take quite a bit tho.I then put a whole bottle into a half tank of fuel.I wouldn't rule out some of that build up maybe coming from too much ZDDP additive in your oil.They say it will ruin catylitic convertors.I'm assuming from possibly stopping them up.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2013, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang16 View Post
Don't forget to take into account that the pix are magnified by the tool. In the old days we used water or auto tranny fluid at a high idle, 2000-2500 RPM and pore it in till the motor chokes down. Let it get back up to rpm again Do that a couple of times then take another look. Old school but worth a try.
Yeah that's true, they look huge in the pics, hard to get a good pic, I had to take a snap shot with my fone of the screen of the tool, so is pretty secondhand.
I can get the sea foam, so I'll use that.

Thanks



Duke
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2013, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
I'd at least use the umbrella seals they (used to) come with on the exhaust side.

IMO just removing the crud using sea foam and replacing the seals may not fully address the "why's" of there being crud there in the first place. There's no replacement for physically inspecting/measuring the guides and seats to see what you really have. I don't know what current production Sportsman 2 heads are like but in the past the valve guides have been too loose in some heads. this can cause heads to have eccentric seats as well. I'd check them over carefully and give them what they need- up to and including a fresh valve job and replacement guides (IIRC the factory guides are the cast iron of the head casting).

You can estimate the guide to valve clearance w/the heads still on the engine if you want to go that route before/instead of tearing it down.

FWIW, the MSDS for sea foam says it's made up of isopropyl alcohol, pale oil (mineral oil) and naphtha.

EDIT- Just read your last post, nothing wrong w/trying the easy way first.
Both the intake and exhaust valve guide seals have been riding up and down with the valve, going along for the ride - as it were. And getting smashed to smithereens !

I'll try to estimate the stem clearance with a dial indicator on the stem - close to the guide boss as I do the seals, that's the only way I can think of checking it.

Thanks



Duke
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2013, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jokerZ71 View Post
Like I said,I use the vac hose from my brake booster.I pour about half a bottle into a bowl like container & dab the end of hose in & out.If draw too much in @ once,your engine will most likely go dead.You want to add slowly.Too much @ once could hydrolock the motor.That would take quite a bit tho.I then put a whole bottle into a half tank of fuel.I wouldn't rule out some of that build up maybe coming from too much ZDDP additive in your oil.They say it will ruin catylitic convertors.I'm assuming from possibly stopping them up.
Ok, got it

Cheers



Duke
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2013, 11:23 AM
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Just to clarify, umbrella seals ride up and down on the stems, but they're made w/a large enough ID at their bottoms to allow them to miss hitting the guide boss. Similar to one's head (representing the guide boss) inside an umbrella (representing the umbrella seal *duh* lol). The way your seals were fitting caused them to pop off the guide boss (if they were pressed over the boss), allowing the too-small seal bottom ID to hit the guide boss instead of clearing it like an umbrella seal would do. Same thing happens if the torn up seals were installed like an umbrella seal (not pressed onto the boss). Obviously hitting the boss thousands of times a minute would tend to tear them up.
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:32 AM
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In all likelyhood,your current seals probably split on installation.
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
Just to clarify, umbrella seals ride up and down on the stems, but they're made w/a large enough ID at their bottoms to allow them to miss hitting the guide boss. Similar to one's head (representing the guide boss) inside an umbrella (representing the umbrella seal *duh* lol). The way your seals were fitting caused them to pop off the guide boss (if they were pressed over the boss), allowing the too-small seal bottom ID to hit the guide boss instead of clearing it like an umbrella seal would do. Same thing happens if the torn up seals were installed like an umbrella seal (not pressed onto the boss). Obviously hitting the boss thousands of times a minute would tend to tear them up.

Oh, ok. That kinda makes sense because IIRC , the exhaust seals did seam to fit over the boss with ease, so perhaps they are functioning as they should. They're the SS 72526 ones and they appear to be intact - but I'll check..



Duke
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2013, 08:28 PM
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Oh, ok. That kinda makes sense because IIRC , the exhaust seals did seam to fit over the boss with ease, so perhaps they are functioning as they should. They're the SS 72526 ones and they appear to be intact - but I'll check..



Duke
What did the scope show you on the exhaust side? If there were no large amounts of burned oil like the intakes, I'd say whatever was on there was doing their job and if that's the case I would use the same seals again as long as they were not being damaged like the too-small intake seals.

There's a trick to install new PC seals over the tips of the valves. Often a plastic valve tip protector will be furnished w/the seals. It's pushed over the tip of the valve and the seal is then slid onto the valve stem. The plastic protector keeps the edges of the valve tip from damaging the seal. If you don't get one w/the new seals, you can use a couple thicknesses of cellophane tape placed over the tip (the tape need not actually stick to the tip- it's just there to keep the seal and valve tip from contacting each other), then carefully press the seal on.
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2013, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
What did the scope show you on the exhaust side? If there were no large amounts of burned oil like the intakes, I'd say whatever was on there was doing their job and if that's the case I would use the same seals again as long as they were not being damaged like the too-small intake seals.

There's a trick to install new PC seals over the tips of the valves. Often a plastic valve tip protector will be furnished w/the seals. It's pushed over the tip of the valve and the seal is then slid onto the valve stem. The plastic protector keeps the edges of the valve tip from damaging the seal. If you don't get one w/the new seals, you can use a couple thicknesses of cellophane tape placed over the tip (the tape need not actually stick to the tip- it's just there to keep the seal and valve tip from contacting each other), then carefully press the seal on.
The exhaust valves look clean and white , no oil build up like the intakes.
I'm fairly sure that they are undamaged but I'll inspect them cylinder at a time when I do the intakes - I'm using the rope trick. I haven't got the new intake seals as yet, still corresponding with the AUS dealer for Cometic, he's checking with Cometic/Ohio on those two part#'s with the same specs - want to make sure I get the closest fit available.

I still have the plastic protector from the last set, so it's all good there.

Thank you for your input.



Duke
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2013, 10:03 PM
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All good news, glad to hear the exhaust look good.
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