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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2013, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
That is absolutely right, as long as they aren't thieves. I have one guy who the boss calls, he likes the guy, I don't. He over charges BIG TIME comparing how much it would cost to repair it with paint work. Like the bumper remanufactures will charge $800 on a $1200 bumper where as a $150 Honda bumper is only $100 even though the work is exactly the same. This guy will look at how much it would cost for use to repair and paint and price relating to that instead of how much time it takes. He did this to one of our vendors who damaged one of our cars while it was at his shop. I felt so bad when I watched this guy fix the car in about 45 minutes then charged him $300. This was after I explained how he had to pay for it and he was a nice guy who always does his best for us on price and yada yada. He REAMED the guy and it ticks me off. I have never been able to look at this guy again and he knows it. He has tried to candy coat stuff but that was all I had to see, he is a sleeze.

And another guy we were turned on to is much better anyway. I don't ever want to see the sleeze again but the boss still calls him.

Brian
after this post, I gotta ask? are you flat rate, and have ou ever worked flat rate.. and if so. did you only time punch and get payed for the time it really took, or did you like everyone else make a 40 hours week into a 70+ hour payday.. if the latter, why you mad at a PDR guy that did/does the same thing.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2013, 01:37 AM
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I would look at the same way he did.... It took years to learn and get that fast not to mention the cars that got screwed up in that time of learning so 300.00 compared to 600 is a deal who cares how long it took, if it took him three days would you pay him extra?????? I work fast too. thats how you make money...heck we gotta pay the guys salery that sits behind a desk shootin the sheet all day every single one of them ...I dont think they are worth it either....when you.master a trade and go into business you name your price.when your the BEST you make the most...
I am with you that you need to be paid for your skills but like I said, I asked him to help this guy out, the shops friend and someone we would like him to help out. I don't buy it, you don't need to charge so much under those conditions.

Brian
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
after this post, I gotta ask? are you flat rate, and have ou ever worked flat rate.. and if so. did you only time punch and get payed for the time it really took, or did you like everyone else make a 40 hours week into a 70+ hour payday.. if the latter, why you mad at a PDR guy that did/does the same thing.
Again, if I have the magic touch and can hang a fender in minutes with tricks I have learned, and someone who gives me a bunch of work asks me to help out one of his close business associates you damn tootin I am going to give him a break. This guy was NEVER asked before this to give a break. He walks in and fixes something and gives us the bill and we pay him. This was one time that I asked him to help someone we do business with, someone who has helped us out of a jam many times. Someone who has given us KILLER deals on tires for guys in the shop's personal cars. I am sorry, under those circumstances the guy should have helped out our friend whom we were asking him to help out.

Brian
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Old 12-15-2013, 06:35 AM
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The way I look at it is these glue pullers are just another way to pull out a dent they're faster than a stud puller and you dont have to drill a hole like with the screw in puller..every serious bodyman should have one in his box.You dont need to be a paintless guy just use it to pull dents quickly and acurately then do the grinding and filling...like any other tool in the body shop the more you use it the better you get the only difference is insted of welding a stud your gluing a stud and you dont need to grind the paint off first...one of the advantages of not grinding off the paint is you can see exactly how much your pulling and how much more you need to pull from looking at the reflection in the paint...
Imagine a 4dr Nissan Titans roof or a pathfinder and how big it is,now imagine its been pelted by hail and pretty much looks like the surface of a golfball...replacing it 600.00 plus 22 hrs labor that dont include any paint time.the stud puller is out of the question because when you press it down hard enough to make a connection it actually makes the dent worse not so much at the edges but in the middle of the roof where its very weak. the glue puller was not only the only choice but it worked beautifully, I was able to pull all the dents and have it roughed in filler in a day (filled each dent not smear filler from one end to the other) then finished and primed the next day all without even taking out the headliner all the interior stayed intact saving a couple days alone,unfortunately it came out so well and quick they gave me another one and another one and.....its a great tool, try it before you knock it...I think all of you will like it.heck I paid over 300.00 for my motor gaurd stud puller over 20 yrs ago but its another tool that'll be resting in peace in my box and only used once in a while now, not every day...chances are, if a glue puller cant pull out the dent good enough to do the old fashioned body work the panel needs replacing any ways , a good,experianced bodyman does not mold a panel out of filler.

Last edited by deadbodyman; 12-15-2013 at 06:41 AM.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2013, 09:59 AM
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Again, if I have the magic touch and can hang a fender in minutes with tricks I have learned, and someone who gives me a bunch of work asks me to help out one of his close business associates you damn tootin I am going to give him a break. This guy was NEVER asked before this to give a break. He walks in and fixes something and gives us the bill and we pay him. This was one time that I asked him to help someone we do business with, someone who has helped us out of a jam many times. Someone who has given us KILLER deals on tires for guys in the shop's personal cars. I am sorry, under those circumstances the guy should have helped out our friend whom we were asking him to help out.

Brian
I get that, but in the same tocan(sp?) if he did that for x bucks as a favor.. your boss would want that price.. he's in business.. you set your price and that's that..
And Brian, you pointed out that you think he's a theif because he can do a job in short time and should charge by time it took..
it's sad that it's always the other guy, that should charge less because they now can whip out the job..
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2013, 10:07 AM
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The way I look at it is these glue pullers are just another way to pull out a dent they're faster than a stud puller and you dont have to drill a hole like with the screw in puller..every serious bodyman should have one in his box.You dont need to be a paintless guy just use it to pull dents quickly and acurately then do the grinding and filling...like any other tool in the body shop the more you use it the better you get the only difference is insted of welding a stud your gluing a stud and you dont need to grind the paint off first...one of the advantages of not grinding off the paint is you can see exactly how much your pulling and how much more you need to pull from looking at the reflection in the paint...
Imagine a 4dr Nissan Titans roof or a pathfinder and how big it is,now imagine its been pelted by hail and pretty much looks like the surface of a golfball...replacing it 600.00 plus 22 hrs labor that dont include any paint time.the stud puller is out of the question because when you press it down hard enough to make a connection it actually makes the dent worse not so much at the edges but in the middle of the roof where its very weak. the glue puller was not only the only choice but it worked beautifully, I was able to pull all the dents and have it roughed in filler in a day (filled each dent not smear filler from one end to the other) then finished and primed the next day all without even taking out the headliner all the interior stayed intact saving a couple days alone,unfortunately it came out so well and quick they gave me another one and another one and.....its a great tool, try it before you knock it...I think all of you will like it.heck I paid over 300.00 for my motor gaurd stud puller over 20 yrs ago but its another tool that'll be resting in peace in my box and only used once in a while now, not every day...chances are, if a glue puller cant pull out the dent good enough to do the old fashioned body work the panel needs replacing any ways , a good,experianced bodyman does not mold a panel out of filler.
my, concern will be down the road, does the pulling force weaken the paints adheasion , and will the paint delaminate down the line.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2013, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
I get that, but in the same tocan(sp?) if he did that for x bucks as a favor.. your boss would want that price.. he's in business.. you set your price and that's that..
And Brian, you pointed out that you think he's a theif because he can do a job in short time and should charge by time it took..
it's sad that it's always the other guy, that should charge less because they now can whip out the job..
We have to agree to disagree. Being you don't know the relationship between the shop and the people we are talking about I will do my best to paint the picture to see.

I have always said if a guy finds a way to hang a quarter in fifteen minutes, shouldn't he get paid the "industry standard" at the very least? If he has put so much time into it to mastering the skills it would take to do a 15 hour job in 15 minutes, he deserves to be rewarded for that time.

That is not what we are talking about. He did NOT repair this dent lightening fast, he repaired it as fast as any other PDR guy. It's like that bumper for the Infiniti that costs new from the dealer $1200 and the Honda Civic bumper that costs $200 new from the dealer. The originals on the cars both have the exact same amount of damage. When sent to "remanufacture" to the bumper place we use the Infiniti bumper comes with a $800 price tag to "remanufacture" and the Honda one is $125. They took the exact same amount of work, the same amount of materials, everything is exactly the same, but priced in relation to the new OE. They weren't "exchange" they fixed the exact same damage on the two bumpers we gave them to fix. We do it every day, I hardly think a thing of it. To replace that bumper on the Infiniti it would cost $1200 and the amount of damage is averaged out over the thousands of bumpers they do, the cost is the same being it torn in half and they put hours upon hours into it or if it had one tab broken, the price is always the same, I understand, just because this one only has a broken tab doesn't change that they have a set price for a reason, because sometimes it takes hours upon hours to fix the damage, even on the Civic bumper!

I get that, and we pay it every single day to the bumper remanufacture company we use. But when one of our employees backs another car into an Infiniti on the lot and damages the bumper a little and we have to send it to this bumper remanufacture company to be repaired and we ask them to give us the best deal they can because we are paying for this damage that happen here at the shop.....they deliver the bumper back with a price of $75 on it. Why, because we have a business relationship. We also give them ALL our old cores, we give them MANY thousands of dollars a week in bumper cores, even all the ones we replace with new. We buy an average about about a thousand dollars a week in remanned bumpers. We have been working with this company for about 8 years giving them 99.99% of our remanned bumper business. Because of this they go outside the box and help us out. They have went in the past WAY outside the box to help us. We seldom ask them for such things, very seldom. So it's a common courtesy to do this for us. And we have done the same for them when they send us job of a loved one who needs the car repaired after a wreck.

How about the Toyota Dealer, we spend about $35k a month buying parts. We have for the very least the 12 years I have been there. We have a relationship, when the boss tripped and fell on a new quarter panel smashing it I called them up and asked them if they could please give us another at no cost, the guy didn't even bat and eye, we had a new replacement quarter and the old one was thrown in the metal bin, why, because we have a business relationship and we have never asked them to do such a thing before.

We have a relationship very much like with the bumper remanufacturer and Toyota dealership with both this PDR guy and the guy at the tire shop who we asked him to repair the car for.

It would be common courtesy to do the best he could on the pricing. That is how I see it, if you see it differently it's all good.

And I have to add, we have a relationship with out venders where there is NOT ONE SINGLE BIT of BS going on. We NEVER say that a part was damaged that they delivered if it happened in the shop for instance. If we call up with a complaint to replace a part damaged, they KNOW it was delivered damaged. Every part gets inspected, if one of the techs scratches some chrome grille moulding I call the dealer and order another and put it on "shop pay", we don't lie to the people we work with. They know this, I never have a problem calling up the dealer and saying "the hood you just delivered has a dent, can you get me another?" I get ZERO lip and ZERO problems, the next day (or sooner if I need it that bad) I have a new hood there and they are taking the old one without so much as a whimper. This goes the same for customers, if there is ANY possibility in what they say being true to damage caused on the property to their car or something not working that did before or what ever, we FIX IT. We put them in a rental car when they come in with a complaint and we FIX the complaint. No getting ragged on by the boss, NOTHING. The customer comes first, we don't even have to think about it. We have the same relationship with the vendors we use. Most we have been using the whole 12 years I have been there, the dealers for parts, we have changed only a few over the years because of poor service, the new one gets every dime spent on that make of car. We invite the vendors to our Christmas parties! The guys who come by and repair damaged interior pieces, and pin striping and clear bra installation and what not, same for the 12 years I have been there. We have vendors who the boss will stop and chat with for an hour or take to lunch because he has been doing business with them for the whole 35 years he has been in business! We have a relationship with our vendors and customers like no where I have ever seen.

Brian

Last edited by MARTINSR; 12-15-2013 at 10:58 AM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2013, 11:09 AM
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Brian, that sounds like a great shop. Wish I lived closer! Nothing wrong with snow but....
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2013, 11:10 AM
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well, guess that guy you hate, thinks his work is good enough to not have you go elsewhere..
the bumber company.. gave you a deal on a bumper. with a price of 75.00 and you thing that's great.. they did you a favor.. they are laf'n as they get the core.. if they where anybetter than the guy you hate, they'd have put n/c(no charge) on that ones bill. the guy you hate doesn't get cores to rebuild to make money from..
but you think the bumper guys did you a favor.. got it..
yup we'll just disagree
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:07 PM
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Brian, that sounds like a great shop. Wish I lived closer! Nothing wrong with snow but....
This is a few shots from our Christmas party out on the SF bay.


Going under the San Francisco bay bridge.



Me and my Sweetie.



Passing under the Golden Gate Bridge.



San Francisco from out on the bay.



Alcatraz (crappy camera)



And the bus ride to SF to board the boat. First time I ever rode down the Freeway with a glass of wine in my hand.



This family treats it's employees darn good.

Brian

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Old 12-16-2013, 05:51 AM
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Wheres all the bodymen and painters????
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:26 AM
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Wheres all the bodymen and painters????


All over the boat, it was very big. Believe me, they were all there shaking their bootie and getting up on the deck checking out the sights.

Brian
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:24 PM
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Looks like a great night Brian. Good to have a forever wife to share it with. The view of San Francisco is great!

John
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:33 PM
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Looks like a great night Brian. Good to have a forever wife to share it with. The view of San Francisco is great!

John
I treasure it John, going under the Golden Gate Bridge, the most photographed structure on earth! It was COLD out there (for California, come on now guys) on the deck. But I still had to spend a lot of time out there with a few different co-workers who were thrilled to be out on the bay for the first time. It is just so damn picturesque.

I regard times like that as a treasure. I have been out there before but it's like the first time looking up at the Golden Gate Bridge, it's an amazing piece of engineering built over 75 years ago.
Brian
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:21 PM
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The way I look at it is these glue pullers are just another way to pull out a dent they're faster than a stud puller and you dont have to drill a hole like with the screw in puller..every serious bodyman should have one in his box.You dont need to be a paintless guy just use it to pull dents quickly and acurately then do the grinding and filling...like any other tool in the body shop the more you use it the better you get the only difference is insted of welding a stud your gluing a stud and you dont need to grind the paint off first...one of the advantages of not grinding off the paint is you can see exactly how much your pulling and how much more you need to pull from looking at the reflection in the paint...
Imagine a 4dr Nissan Titans roof or a pathfinder and how big it is,now imagine its been pelted by hail and pretty much looks like the surface of a golfball...replacing it 600.00 plus 22 hrs labor that dont include any paint time.the stud puller is out of the question because when you press it down hard enough to make a connection it actually makes the dent worse not so much at the edges but in the middle of the roof where its very weak. the glue puller was not only the only choice but it worked beautifully, I was able to pull all the dents and have it roughed in filler in a day (filled each dent not smear filler from one end to the other) then finished and primed the next day all without even taking out the headliner all the interior stayed intact saving a couple days alone,unfortunately it came out so well and quick they gave me another one and another one and.....its a great tool, try it before you knock it...I think all of you will like it.heck I paid over 300.00 for my motor gaurd stud puller over 20 yrs ago but its another tool that'll be resting in peace in my box and only used once in a while now, not every day...chances are, if a glue puller cant pull out the dent good enough to do the old fashioned body work the panel needs replacing any ways , a good,experianced bodyman does not mold a panel out of filler.
I'll look into it. There's always something extra you can do for a customer. Like say you're doing the rear end but the hood is crap? Sounds like a thought but I doubt it's gonna replace a stud gun, but another option is something I'm always open to.
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