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Old 09-13-2012, 12:07 PM
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GM Parts 350/260 crate engine

Over the weekend I and several friends installed one in an 84 Monte Carlo SS.Before we did we voided the warranty by installing a comp XE262H,matching springs and 1.6 roller tip rockers.The car has 3.42 gears and a THM 350 trans,stock converter,small tube headers with 2.25 duals.On top we used an Edelbrock performer EPS intake with a 570 street avenger carb.This car is a solid street performer and actually is pretty quick!This cam is a good choice for these engines even with the low compression.Runs much better than the 350/290 cam IMHO.

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Old 09-14-2012, 01:00 PM
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Eggman,

We've been using XE262H in 350s and 400 Pontiacs for many years now. Awesome cam for a mild idle and good power. It actually works BETTER in lower compression engines than it does in higher ones. The old-school crowds don't like XE grinds. It's not fair. They just don't KNOW them yet... (:-

You're right. The engine is snappy and performs very well up to about 5,600 (350C). Most realize about a 15% increase in fuel economy as well. Low-end and vacuum are EXCELLENT. We have one customer with a '68 Firebird ragtop, 406 CID (Pontiac), Performer, Q-Jet, Hooker "Comps", TH350, stock converter, 3.23 gears that runs 13.70s all day on the 2.25-70 R15 Radial T/As and gets 17 MPG. He dynoed 276 RWHP. Not bad for 87 octane and a "driver". The Pontiac is out of "breath" by 5,200 due to the larger displacement.

This is, by far, our most popular flat tappet hydraulic grind.

Good job!

Jim
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:46 PM
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Lots of folks dismiss that engine because of its low compression and low performance heads. However, I put one in a 1/2 ton pickup nearly 20 years ago and used an old skool 204/214/112 cam with a Performer RPM manifold and 450 Holley. Even with stock exhaust manifolds, it was a strong runner. As I recall, it got better gas mileage than the 307 it replaced, and probably made 1/3 more torque and HP.

Hindsight being 20-20, today I'd probably use a cam with 108 LSA to get the intake valve closed as soon as possible to make decent cylinder pressure with the 7.8:1 compression. Something like an Isky cam @ 208/208/108 would be cool. And Comp Cams has some unadvertised "Specialty" cams using the older, less intense lobes on a 108 LSA, this one for example: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-12-306-4/

Last edited by 55_327; 09-14-2012 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 09-15-2012, 06:15 AM
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I was trying to push a Summit grind with a 218/218 450/450 on a 106 lsa.I ran a Comp 268H in one of these engines years ago in my 77 Chevy shortbed and it ran great too!
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Old 09-15-2012, 07:01 AM
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Engine

I've put in GM crate motors in my last two cars and bought the 180 horse instead of the 290 . Been very happy. I too put in mild cams and after market intakes and carbs. The question I have is I've is where was a 260 HPT listed? I haven't seen one but I buy from GM suppliers. Just wondering.
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:18 AM
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Do you have a part#? i think the 180hp is the 260----260 means with headers +4 bbl.

Totally stock with stock q-jet manifold and q-jet i was able to turn a 16.8 et. in a 1/2 ton pickup with 2.56 rear gear and stock exhaust manifolds with this engine.
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Old 09-15-2012, 11:56 AM
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Engine

I know the only difference between the 180 HP and the 290 is a Chevy cam. The hp rating was taken on a dyno with a full speed equipment equiped motor to get 290 hp.Mabey know they have a in between rating also.
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Old 09-15-2012, 11:59 AM
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Engine

Forgot. My part number was 10067353.
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Old 09-15-2012, 02:39 PM
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That is the part number of the GM parts 350/260 from the Jegs catalogue.These engines have had several HP ratings over the years.
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by against all odds View Post
Do you have a part#? i think the 180hp is the 260----260 means with headers +4 bbl.
engine.
Yeah, when I hear "260 hp crate engine", I think base Goodwrench engine with 4bbl and headers. Never saw it rated at 180 hp, but that might be about right for a 2 bbl and single exhaust.

As best I can tell the only difference between the base engine and the 290 hp version is the cam. The pistons and heads are the same P/Ns as the base engine, so cranking pressure must be really low with the bigger cam. No reason at all to get the 290 version, IMO.
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Old 09-16-2012, 01:21 AM
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41 kustom and 55_327 are correct, the only difference between the Goodwrench 350 and the GMPP 350/290 is the cam. The Goodwrench 350 uses a cam with .383/.401 lift, 194*/202* @ .050, pretty much the 350/300 HP cam specs. The 290 HP version uses the cam from the old 350/350HP, .450/.460, 222*/222*. With a price difference on the 2 engines of $500, that makes that a pretty expensive hydraulic flat tappet cam, especially when it has too much duration for the low compression ratio being used so it has a sluggish bottom end. $500 will buy any hydraulic flat tappet cam with lots of $$$ left over, and puts you pretty close to paying for a retro hyd roller cam/lifter kit!

55_327, the "specialty" cam at Summit you listed is in the Comp Cams catalog in the "classic cams" section. The one I like is part 12-310-4, the 260AH-8 grind with .444/.444, 212*/218*, 108 LSA. It would work well, and even better with a set of Vortec heads! With .444 lift it wouldn't even require mods to the Vortecs for high lift.
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Old 09-16-2012, 06:33 AM
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I think they should have used the 350 HO cam in the 290 version.It is 212/222-435/460 on a 112.5 lsa.Would have been better for bottom end power.
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEd36 View Post
55_327, the "specialty" cam at Summit you listed is in the Comp Cams catalog in the "classic cams" section.
You're right, but I didn't notice it until searching Summit's website by cam duration. Comp certainly doesn't show that series in their menu of cams on their website. And I never could find a timing card for it.

About the Goodwrench cam, when I bought one of those engines back in 1993, the spec was something like 195/202, .390"/.410". That same spec is also mentioned in a Hot Rod Magazine article from the late 80s/early 90s that said it was a cam from a 305 HO.

Hey, I just found this on the Scoggin-Dickey website:

0.390in. / 0.410in. lift, Hydraulic Camshaft
195 / 202 Duration @ 0.050in. Lift


I think that cam with .383"/.401" lift was from the earlier "Target Master" crate engine. Or maybe they use whatever they have on the shelf!

Regarding the 290 hp engine, I'm not sure which "off the shelf" cam they could have used, but the 212/222 cam would have been better than what they chose. I think Step 1 should have been flat top pistons or 64cc-70cc combustion chambers. Funny that there are no old GM flat tappet cams around 206/216. They jumped from 195/202 to 222/222 (or 221/221), except for that 212/222 cam, which was specifically designed for a 9:1 350.

Last edited by 55_327; 09-16-2012 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:02 AM
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41 kustom -- I love your RF statues. Last year I bought RF shirts for myself and my grandson. Mine depicts the Beatnik Bandit. Since he's a skateboarder, I bought him this one:




I'm trying to get him interested in old cars and keep him away from what kids his age normally like -- shiny 22" wheels and blacked-out lenses.
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggman63 View Post
I think they should have used the 350 HO cam in the 290 version.It is 212/222-435/460 on a 112.5 lsa.Would have been better for bottom end power.
I agree, I've felt all along that the GMPP engineers really dropped the ball when they designed the 350/290. The 350 HO cam would have been a much better match. Pace Performance sells a version of the Goodwrench 350 using a cam with .443/.465 lift, 214*/224* @ .050, 112* LSA, so it's basically one of the aftermarket copies of the 350 HO cam. It's rated at 300 HP @5300 RPM, 356 ft. lbs. of torque @ 3700 RPM vs. the 350/290 engine at 290 HP @5250 RPM, 332 ft. lbs. of torque @ 3750 RPM. Pace sells their version long block for $1819.95, or $1899.95 with an Edelbrock Performer intake manifold, which is less than their $1995.95 price for the 350/290 long block. 10 more HP on top, with 24 more lb/ft coming in 50 rpm sooner than the 350/290. Substitute a set of Vortec heads and you've duplicated the setup of the 350 HO except with a 2 pc rear seal block so no new flexplate/flywheel needed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 55_327 View Post
You're right, but I didn't notice it until searching Summit's website by cam duration. Comp certainly doesn't show that series in their menu of cams on their website. And I never could find a timing card for it.

About the Goodwrench cam, when I bought one of those engines back in 1993, the spec was something like 195/202, .390"/.410". That same spec is also mentioned in a Hot Rod Magazine article from the late 80s/early 90s that said it was a cam from a 305 HO.

Hey, I just found this on the Scoggin-Dickey website:

0.390in. / 0.410in. lift, Hydraulic Camshaft
195 / 202 Duration @ 0.050in. Lift


I think that cam with .383"/.401" lift was from the earlier "Target Master" crate engine. Or maybe they use whatever they have on the shelf!

Regarding the 290 hp engine, I'm not sure which "off the shelf" cam they could have used, but the 212/222 cam would have been better. I think Step 1 should have been flat top pistons or 64cc-70cc combustion chambers. Funny that there are no old GM flat tappet cams around 206/216. They jumped from 195/202 to 222/222 (or 221/221), except for that 212/222 cam, which was specifically designed for a 9:1 350.
I've noticed the disparity in cam specs too, but the difference is small enough I doubt you would be able to tell much, if any, difference in performance between the 2 cams. I wonder if it isn't the same cam with a different way of measuring. Either way I consider them both the ol' 300 HP cam. I fully agree with you that there should be a version of this engine with flat top pistons, or at least a D deck/reverse dome style dish piston.
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