GM series II 3800 top end diagram - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2009, 09:27 PM
fast68's Avatar
likes chevy trucks & boobies
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: IL
Posts: 1,970
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
GM series II 3800 questions

95 vin code K series II 3800
new question below thanks

    Advertisement

Last edited by fast68; 04-24-2009 at 04:53 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2009, 10:33 PM
low budget rodder's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Geneseo, NY
Posts: 152
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast68
anyone know of a diagram or real good pics of entire top end assembly and power steering pump setup and etc on a 95-up vin code K series II 3800 lemme know.
with the gray plastic engine cover removed so i can see harness routing and lines and hoses routing also,.

we have done tons of these engines, swaps, replacements, etc in the past but its been a while since they were coming in often for this, and now i have forgotten alot.


google only is coming up with L67(supercharged) results which wont do us any good.

this one is just the L36


also i seem to have forgotten if these are the torque down style rockers,
or if they are zero plus turn adjustment like typical hydraulic lifters are.
the heads have bene milled so i am a little concerned about the stock pushrod length


hope to at least set the heads and LIM on tomorrow since new gasket sets and new bolts and everything came with the car yesterday,. i cleaned the cylinders and valley today it was reall dirty carbon bad, and not good looking at all for only 125k miles hmm.. gonna do what they want though and slap it back together with a new UIM over the next few days.


thanks for anything

Okay, gimme a year make model and or VIN... tell me your project and I'll see what I can print off on the repair manual for you... in the mean time, I copied some stuff off in a word doc for you. I looked up an '01 pontiac grand prix with 3800 motor... and there is so much stuff that I can just copy it all right now... so tell me what exactly you want or are doing and I'll try to hook you up the best I can.

~J
Attached Files
File Type: doc 3800.doc (276.5 KB, 1522 views)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2009, 04:14 PM
fast68's Avatar
likes chevy trucks & boobies
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: IL
Posts: 1,970
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
well its a 95 olds 98 its the first year for the series II, dirt common vin K non-supercharged

01 GP one should be a whole different one, according to the 3800 engine history online because it is a whle different car platform, and so all different brackets and accessories and so on.,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_98

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_Park_Avenue

anyways i bolted theheads and rockers on today and all thatmuch is done but i am now stuck at the LIM install because the fel pro rubber end seals(light blue ones) are the slip over the end rails style oens but they dont fit right at all

so i am stuck for what to do about it

i could RTV instead of rubber seal but i am unsure if that is a good idea on these series II engines

anyone ?

thanks

Last edited by fast68; 04-24-2009 at 09:53 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2009, 08:41 PM
low budget rodder's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Geneseo, NY
Posts: 152
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast68
well its a 95 olds 98 its the first year for the series II, dirt common vin K non-supercharged

01 GP one should be a whole different one, according to the 3800 engine history online.


anyways i bolted the heads and rockers on today and all that much is done but i am now stuck at the LIM install because the fel pro rubber end seals(light blue ones) are the slip over the end rails style ones but they dont fit right at all

so i am stuck for what to do about it

i could RTV instead of rubber seal but i am unsure if that is a good idea on these series II engines

anyone ?

thanks
Here are GM's instructions for 95-96 VIN K Lower intake manifold. If the lower end seals are not right, I would take it back to where I got it and tell them "you gave me the wrong part"... personally, I would not RTV it... (or not more than necessary) the word doc "3800" has the LIM instructions on this post. I will try to get more info to post, but there is a size limit, so I will have to do multiple "posts"
Attached Files
File Type: doc 3800.doc (102.5 KB, 1053 views)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2009, 08:45 PM
low budget rodder's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Geneseo, NY
Posts: 152
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Here's GM's Intake Manifold Replacement (Upper)
Attached Files
File Type: doc 3800.doc (80.0 KB, 1120 views)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2009, 08:47 PM
low budget rodder's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Geneseo, NY
Posts: 152
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Here's Valve Rocker Arm and Push Rod Replacement
Attached Files
File Type: doc 3800.doc (57.5 KB, 703 views)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2009, 08:56 PM
low budget rodder's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Geneseo, NY
Posts: 152
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Here's Cylinder Head Replacement
Attached Files
File Type: doc 3800.doc (66.0 KB, 673 views)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2009, 09:02 PM
low budget rodder's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Geneseo, NY
Posts: 152
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
I hope this helps a bit...

when I work on "newer" cars like your olds 98, I figure that engineers are payed to design a part to last 120,000 miles (to get beyond warranty but not last forever - so they can sell you more parts) so I try to replace parts with OE type of parts.

The parts you repair your vehicle with, should look like the original part (when new), and if they don't - most times the minimum wage parts guy screwed up somehow. So personally I would try to get the correct gaskets for your engine.

The information I have posted has all the torque sequences and torque to yield specs for you. If you need more info. let me know and I will try to post.

Best of luck

~Joe
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2009, 09:16 PM
fast68's Avatar
likes chevy trucks & boobies
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: IL
Posts: 1,970
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks Joe

well the end seals commonly are a problem and on most engines i dont use them and instead RTV completely across both rails like on the SBC engines,

on this one i had to give up and cut the length of them down because no matter if i put them under the intake gaskets, or over them, the seals were just too long by about 3/16" or so. then i RTV'd the corners real good, and they always give you a tube of it in the kit for the corners anyways.

bolted the LIM on and tomorrow it should be together enough to fire up.

it'll be fine.

OE parts ar eusually fine yes, but not when it comes to these 95-up series II UIM's the EGR stovepipe has no air gap and erodes the manifold over time and causes them to leak water and then in turn ruins engines, etc if not repaired

as was the case with this one but it still ran and AFAIK did not damage a bearing or rod etc

and surprisingly o reilly auto parts has a replacement UIM in stock and its only 125 bucks

so thats good yay.

but it better have the revised EGR stove pipe with a shield to protect the UIM from the EGR heat

the owner of the car wrongly assumed it had a blown headgasket and tore the heads of fit and had them completely rebuilt, wasting work, time and lots of $$ all for nothing when it could have been fixed in a couple hours for 125 bucks plus labor

you should see the heads they are like brand new now, new valves, new springs, milled, painted black nice and pretty haha. the bottom end is a mess nasty grimey gunky crappy, and rusty inside. and just plain the worst i have ever seen for a 125k mile engine, ever, and i have seen lots of bad engines over the years.

crazy...

this computer wont open .doc files it just hangs up trying to open it and i cant close the window and it errors out something about word 97 unable to convert graphics blah blah and almost 300k in IE memory trying to do it.

junk browser.


thanks!

Last edited by fast68; 04-24-2009 at 09:35 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2009, 09:28 PM
low budget rodder's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Geneseo, NY
Posts: 152
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
do you get the text parts though? or do you not get anything?

are any of the readers able to open this?

I am using office 2007, but not everyone can view this format yet, so I have been saving in word 97-03 format and not sure if it is doing it yet.

can anyone "translate" my word doc's to a form for everyone to enjoy?

thanks
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2009, 09:33 PM
low budget rodder's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Geneseo, NY
Posts: 152
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Text for Cylinder Head Replacement... (no photos) (important info is listed though)


Removal Procedure
Tools Required

J 36660-A Torque Angle Meter

1. Disconnect the negative battery cable. Refer to

Caution: Unless directed otherwise, the ignition and start switch must be in the OFF or LOCK position, and all electrical loads must be OFF before servicing any electrical component. Disconnect the negative battery cable to prevent an electrical spark should a tool or equipment come in contact with an exposed electrical terminal. Failure to follow these precautions may result in personal injury and/or damage to the vehicle or its components.
in General Information.
2. Remove the intake manifold. Refer to Intake Manifold Replacement .
3. Remove the exhaust manifold.
4. Remove the rocker arm cover. Refer to Valve Rocker Arm Cover Replacement .

Object Number: 42227 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
5. Remove the electronic ignition module.
6. Remove the spark plug wires.
7. Remove the generator bracket.
8. Remove the A/C compressor bracket bolt.
9. Remove the power steering pump.
10. Remove the accessory belt tensioner. Refer to Drive Belt Tensioner Replacement .
11. For VIN 1 engines, remove the supercharger belt tensioner.
12. Remove the fuel pipe heat shield.
13. Remove the rocker arm assemblies. Refer to Valve Rocker Arm and Push Rod Replacement .
14. Remove the pushrods. Refer to Valve Rocker Arm and Push Rod Replacement .
15. Remove the cylinder head bolts. Discard the bolts.
16. Remove the cylinder head.
17. Clean all of the gasket mating surfaces.
18. Inspect the cylinder head. Refer to Cylinder Head Removal .

Installation Procedure
Tools Required

J 36660-A Torque Angle Meter

Notice: This engine uses special torque to yield head bolts. This design bolt requires a special tightening procedure. Failure to follow the given procedure will cause head gasket failure and possible engine damage.
1. Clean the threads in the block. Use a 7/16-14 tap.

Notice: Installing the head gasket with the arrow pointing to the front will cause gasket failure and possible engine failure. Head gaskets are not interchangeable.

Object Number: 26157 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
2. Install the head gasket with the arrow pointing to the front of the engine.

Notice: This bolt is designed to permanently stretch when tightened, and therefore MUST be replaced anytime it is removed. The correct part number fastener must be used to replace this type of fastener. Do not use a bolt that is stronger in this application. If the correct bolt is not used, the parts will not be tightened correctly. The system or the components may be damaged.

Object Number: 38826 Size: SH
Click here for detailed picture of above image.
3. Install the new cylinder head bolts.

Tighten
Tighten the bolts in sequence to 50 Nm (37 lb ft).
Rotate each bolt 120 degrees in sequence. Use the J 36660-A .
Rotate the center four bolts an additional 30 degrees. Use the J 36660-A .

Notice: Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.
4. Install the pushrods. Refer to Valve Rocker Arm and Push Rod Replacement .
5. Install the guide plate.
6. Install the rocker arm. Refer to Valve Rocker Arm and Push Rod Replacement .
7. Install the A/C compressor bracket bolt.

Tighten
Tighten the bolt to 70 Nm (52 lb ft).
8. Install the generator support bracket to the cylinder head.
9. Install the generator.
10. Install the electronic ignition module.
11. Install the belt tensioner. Refer to Drive Belt Tensioner Replacement .
12. Install the spark plug wires.
13. Install the power steering pump. Refer to SECTION 3B.
14. Install the fuel pipe heat shield.
15. Connect the negative battery cable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2009, 09:34 PM
low budget rodder's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Geneseo, NY
Posts: 152
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Valve Rocker Arm and Push Rod Replacement
Removal Procedure

Tools Required
J 36660-A Torque Angle Meter
1. Remove the left rocker arm cover. Refer to Valve Rocker Arm Cover Replacement .
2. Remove the right rocker arm cover. Refer to Valve Rocker Arm Cover Replacement .



3. Remove the rocker arm pedestal and retaining bolts.
Important: Place the assemblies on a clean surface. Store the component in order so they can be reassembled in the same location and with the same mating surfaces as when removed.
4. Remove the pedestal and rocker arm assembly.
5. In order to complete installation, observe the following assembly tips:
Clean the rocker arms and pedestal bolts in a suitable solution and inspect for wear.
Clean the rocker arm pedestal bolts of all thread adhesive.
Apply thread lock compound or equivalent to the bolt threads before assembly.

Installation Procedure




1. Install the pedestal and rocker arm assembly.
Notice: This bolt is designed to permanently stretch when tightened, and therefore MUST be replaced anytime it is removed. The correct part number fastener must be used to replace this type of fastener. Do not use a bolt that is stronger in this application. If the correct bolt is not used, the parts will not be tightened correctly. The system or the components may be damaged.
2. Install the rocker arm pedestal retaining bolts.
Tighten
Tighten the bolts to 15 Nm (11 lb ft). Use the J 36660-A in order to rotate the bolts an additional 90 degrees.
Notice: Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.
3. Install the right side rocker arm cover. Refer to Valve Rocker Arm Cover Replacement .
4. Install the left side rocker arm cover. Refer to Valve Rocker Arm Cover Replacement .
Tighten
Tighten the bolts to 10 Nm (89 lb in).
5. Inspect for proper completion of the repairs.
6. Listen for valve train noise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2009, 09:35 PM
low budget rodder's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Geneseo, NY
Posts: 152
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Intake Manifold Replacement (Upper)
Removal Procedure

1. Disconnect the negative battery cable. Refer to
Caution: Unless directed otherwise, the ignition and start switch must be in the OFF or LOCK position, and all electrical loads must be OFF before servicing any electrical component. Disconnect the negative battery cable to prevent an electrical spark should a tool or equipment come in contact with an exposed electrical terminal. Failure to follow these precautions may result in personal injury and/or damage to the vehicle or its components.
in General Information.
2. Remove the fuel injector sight shield. Remove the air intake duct.
3. Disconnect the spark plug wires from the right side of the engine.
4. Remove the manifold vacuum source.
5. Depressurize the fuel lines.



6. Remove the fuel rail.
7. Remove the EGR heat shield.
8. Remove the cable bracket to the cylinder head mounting bolt.
9. Remove the throttle cable.



10. Remove the throttle body support bracket.
11. Remove the upper intake manifold.

Installation Procedure




1. Install the upper intake manifold.
2. Install the upper intake manifold bolts.
Tighten
Tighten the bolts to 10 Nm (89 lb in).
Notice: Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.
3. Install the throttle body support bracket.
4. Install the throttle body cable.
5. Install the cable bracket to the cylinder head mounting bolt.
6. Install the EGR heat shield.



7. Install the fuel rail.
8. Install the manifold vacuum source.
9. Connect the spark plug wire to the right side of the engine.
10. Install the fuel injector sight shield. Install the air intake duct.
11. Connect the negative battery cable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2009, 09:36 PM
low budget rodder's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Geneseo, NY
Posts: 152
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Intake Manifold Replacement (Lower VIN K)
Removal Procedure

Notice: Engine Code K has two bolts which are hidden beneath the upper intake. These bolts are located in the right front and left rear corners of the lower intake manifold. It is necessary to remove the upper intake manifold to service the lower intake.
1. Disconnect the negative battery cable. Refer to
Caution: Unless directed otherwise, the ignition and start switch must be in the OFF or LOCK position, and all electrical loads must be OFF before servicing any electrical component. Disconnect the negative battery cable to prevent an electrical spark should a tool or equipment come in contact with an exposed electrical terminal. Failure to follow these precautions may result in personal injury and/or damage to the vehicle or its components.
in General Information.
2. Remove the upper intake manifold. Refer to Intake Manifold Removal .
3. Drain the cooling system.
4. Remove the upper radiator hose.
5. Remove the generator.
6. Remove the drive belt tensioner. Refer to Drive Belt Tensioner Installation .



7. Remove the EGR valve outlet pipe.



8. Remove the lower intake manifold bolts.
9. Remove the lower intake manifold.

Installation Procedure

Important: In order to complete the installation, observe the following assembly tips:
Clean the cylinder block, heads and the intake manifold sealing surface of all oil with a suitable solvent.
Clean the intake manifold bolts and bolt holes of adhesive compound.
Apply GM approved thread locking compound to the intake manifold bolt threads before assembly.



1. Install the lower intake manifold.
2. Install the lower intake manifold bolts.
Tighten
Tighten the bolts in sequence to 15 Nm (11 lb ft).
Notice: Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.
3. Connect the negative battery cable.



4. Install the EGR valve outlet pipe.
5. Install the drive belt tensioner. Refer to Drive Belt Tensioner Installation .
6. Install the generator. Refer to SECTION 6D3.
7. Install the upper radiator hose.
8. Fill the cooling system.
9. Install the upper intake manifold. Refer to Intake Manifold Removal .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2009, 09:38 PM
low budget rodder's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Geneseo, NY
Posts: 152
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
these are missing the pretty pictures, but the text may help.

~J
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is it possible to stroke a 400 more than it already is? stonedchihuahua Hotrodding Basics 18 11-10-2012 08:27 AM
Rear End Number - GM - CA0424W2 DAutoMan Transmission - Rearend 3 07-21-2003 01:50 PM
Top End Miss 2wld4u Engine 12 07-12-2003 05:46 PM
How do I tell what year Mustang II front end? hiimed Suspension - Brakes - Steering 6 06-15-2003 10:49 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.