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Old 08-11-2006, 06:45 PM
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GM Wiper Circuit

I am working with a Newport dual wiper conversion for my '40 Ford truck and using an '82 Buick Skylark tilt column that I have adapted into it. The wiper circuit is not a straight forward wire and run for this application. Has anyone wired the GM stalk control to their wipers for a two-speed or intermittant use? I'd be interested in how you went about it. I used to joke when people asked me if I had intermittant wipers and say sure, sometimes they work, and sometimes they don't...

Elder Rodder

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Old 08-12-2006, 06:52 AM
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Doc here,

Question:

Is the wiper switch a single position , or three position switch , with corresponding wires at the bottom of the column?

Doc
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Old 08-15-2006, 04:32 AM
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Hi Doc,

The control is a rotating stalk type with variable intermittant, low and high speeds. The clip connection at the bottom of the column has five wires: pink, purple, black, grey and green.

Elder Rodder
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Old 08-15-2006, 07:51 AM
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Doc here,

OK, I can give you the stalk pinout and function to adapt to your wiper system if that will help?



Does this help any?

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Old 08-15-2006, 08:45 AM
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GM Wiper Circuit

In the 1990's I designed and manufactured a "black box" adapter that solved this problem for GM stalk switches. I learned that GM used many different stalk switches, and while they have similar functions, hardly any models used the same switch guts. To make matters tougher, the electrical connections inside the stalk switch are very odd, making it just about impossible to directly wire to anything.

One of the street rod parts makers that sells windshield wiper motor conversion kits and universal wiper kits sold my "black box" for a while. It only fit one exact stalk switch and I tried to pick the most common one. That box had relays and circuitry in it to drive a plain wiper motor.

My current solution: get the wiper control module that comes on the car you get your steering column from. There is a special plug in the wiring loom that snaps on the steering column, and it feeds the wiper control module. The wiper control module has relays that powered the stock wiper motor, and an adaptive circuit can be designed and wired from there. I'll help as much as I can - often to design circuits like this I need the parts in front of me.

As a last note when pulling a steering column from a GM car to use in a hot rod, you should get some of the wiring loom that plugs into it. I always get as much of the wiring loom as I can, and always get the plastic connectors that plug into the column with wire attached for splicing.

The exception is if you have purchased a wiring loom kit that mates to the column of choice.

Jon P

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Old 08-15-2006, 08:51 PM
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Doc and Inventor,

Thanks for the info. Something is going to come out of this, eventually. I have some of the wiring from the donor car, but, not the wiper relay box. I may go back and see if something is there still. So Doc, GM used relays all over the place to make that wipers, washer, and delay work. Interesting because I've been in contact with Pete K. at www.birch.net/~petek/cobra/99/aug1.htm (Pete's Cobra Project) and far into his website on building his Cobra he addresses making the Lucas wiper motor work from the GM stalk switch with a couple of relays in the circuit. There are a couple of schematics there that you might like to compare, one of the existing circuit, and one of his that solved his problem. See if we're all headed in the same direction. Would you be so kind as to take a look. Thanks, I'd appreciate it.

Elder Rodder
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Old 08-16-2006, 12:14 AM
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Shop Wiring Diagram for GM Wiper Switch

Elder Rodder,

Pete's effort was solid - it gets the basic functions OFF LO HI to a wiper motor such as the excellent unit you bought from Newport.

If your Buick switch tests out like Pete's -
you have two wires (on Pete's the violet and gray) that are:

not connected to ground for OFF
both connected to ground wire for LO
one not connected, and one is connected to ground for HI

Then Pete's circuit will work well. I took the liberty of drawing the circuit out complete with the proper fuses - thank you Pete for the inspiration.

My previous "black box" made the intermittent wiper variable delay and washer functions operable. It was very complex.

This circuit of Pete's is simple.

Jon P
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File Type: pdf GM Wiper Switch.pdf (24.3 KB, 343 views)

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Old 08-17-2006, 07:06 AM
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Jon,

Nice work on the schematic, I'm impressed at your ability and dedication to this forum. Slowly I'm getting the picture of where I'm headed with this project. Stay into the thread, I'm not there yet.

Elder Rodder
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Old 08-17-2006, 07:17 AM
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GM Wiper Circuit

Elder Rodder,

Thank you for the fine compliment. I try to draw a lot on the computer to keep my skills up to speed. I find it challenging to adapt electronics, and even more interesting is translating electronics into my drawings so it becomes easy to actually DO the wiring.

I'll keep an eye on any progress you post.

Thanks!

Jon P
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Old 08-17-2006, 01:42 PM
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Jon P

these are values I got when testing with my Ohmeter off the pink, black, grey, violet and green at the lower clip on the column. This shows connection from these parts of the stalk switch:

Pink - signal to window washer motor

Black - ground contact

Grey - park, low speed

Violet - manual demand (backwards stalk twist), wiper delay, low speed & high speed (no park)

Green - Park, low speed & high speed

I used the Ohmeter since there is not voltage on the circuits of the wiring. Hope this helps some.

Elder Rodder
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Old 08-17-2006, 02:17 PM
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GM Wiper Circuit

Elder Rodder,

Your switch seems to be wired almost like the ones I have tested and also like Pete's. Almost won't work right though. We'll coordinate here and I'll draw a revised diagram that is just right.

I have some questions to make sure I get this right, so let's dive in and get me a detail or two.

Are you running the tests using a Volt Ohm Meter set to the R1 or maybe a continuity setting? (that is what it reads like, and that is the correct setting). Any other setting could make the results skewed.

When you test with the Ohmmeter you are testing for continuity. I believe you are testing the colored wires on one test lead, and the other lead is always connected to the black wire. That is the correct test to perform, and I think that is what you did, I'm just making sure.

If the above statements are true, then your Gray wire is a little different - it is connected to the Black wire during park and low speed. In the design that Pete set forth, he does not say the Gray wire is connected to the Black wire when the switch is rotated to OFF. I drew the diagram based on the idea that Gray wire is disconnected during OFF.

Your Violet wire is OK if you are checking it with one Ohmmeter lead to the Violet wire and the other lead to the Black wire. That is just like Pete's.

You will not use the green wire, so it does not matter.

As I recall Newport is very clear which wire is which. I need to know how your Newport motor is supposed to be wired - what the various wires are, and the colors if you can tell me, and I'll draw it up exactly. I think your motor uses 5 wires: Hi, Lo, Park, Hot, and Ground. If it is any different let me know, and I will work it out, they use the best motors I have seen.

If you want to use an electric windshield washer pump, I can add that on to the shop wiring schematic diagram. That uses one more relay and another fuse.

Jon P
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Old 08-17-2006, 07:04 PM
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Jon,

I used my (ancient Simpson) VOM set to straight R and used it as a continuity tester. One of the leads was clipped to the GM black wire and the other was used on the various colored wires. You were correct in that assumption. I made a mistake about the gray wire. I went down and re-checked, and it is connected to everything but high, washer and park. What is the green wire then? It's connected to everything but variable. About the Newport: Red is B+, low speed is yellow, high speed is white and park is blue. Ground is through the motor case with a black wire to a ground connection. As long as I'm going through this I might as well go for the window washer and if it is not too big a problem, the delay intermittant. That would be such a kick to be able to use the whole stalk options.. I've got to tell you that this is such a great experience, to me, the engineering and creativity is worth as much as the final product. Rodders helping each other. Wouldn't trade it for anything. Thanks.

Elder Rodder
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Old 08-17-2006, 07:23 PM
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Docvette,

Thanks for the schematic of the GM connections. I was also reading your post about how things work. I was interested in what you had to say about tail lights, directionals and running lights. In my '40 PU I'm using '32 tail lights (Drake's) and they have (2) single filament recepticles in them. Using my '82 Buick Skylark tilt-column would it then be possible to have the stop/directional option of using a single filament bulb for one, and the other for running lights? Is that what you were saying or do integrated directionals only work with double filament bulbs (like 1157s) in that case? I've been thinking that I'd have to use something like Pro's Pick LED bed lites for my directionals and the (2) single filament recepticles in the tail lights for the stop and running lights. Sure would be nice if I could opt for the former and use bed roll plugs instead.

Elder Rodder
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Old 08-18-2006, 05:30 AM
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GM Wiper Circuit

Elder Rodder,

Let me verify about the gray wire. You say it is connected to everything but high, washer and park. That means it is connected to the black wire during low speed, single wipe, and delay wipe?

In the "black box" I built in the 90's the delay wipe was a considerable R&D effort involving a circuit board and lots of little parts on it. I consider that beyond the scope of what we can accomplish here. Since GM saw fit to use so many different versions of the stalk switch, that box only worked with one exact switch.

Thus my original solution stands, if you want to have delay wiper control... get the wiper control module that came with the car the steering column came out of, then possibly an adaptive circuit could be built to run the Newport motor. The control module is on Doc's schematic.

You need to test the Newport motor, too. If you can connect it to a 12 volt battery for a bench test we can make sure it gets wired right:

Connect the case of the motor to the battery ground terminal.
Connect the Red B+ on the motor to the battery positive terminal.

Hold the motor still during all these next tests, it will jump, especially when it starts at high speed.

Connect a wire from the battery positive terminal to the Yellow low speed terminal. Motor should run at low speed. OK take that wire loose. Motor should stop - but not park.

Connect the loose wire from the battery positive terminal to the blue Park terminal. Motor should now turn a little and stop. That is the parked position. OK take the wire loose.

Connect the loose wire from the battery positive terminal to the White high speed terminal. Motor should run at high speed. OK take that wire loose. Motor should stop - but not park.

Connect the loose wire from the battery positive terminal to the blue Park terminal. Motor should now turn a little and stop. That is the parked position.

Let me know how this goes. You cannot beat a Simpson Volt Ohm Meter!

Jon P
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Old 08-18-2006, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elder Rodder
Docvette,

Thanks for the schematic of the GM connections. I was also reading your post about how things work. I was interested in what you had to say about tail lights, directionals and running lights. In my '40 PU I'm using '32 tail lights (Drake's) and they have (2) single filament recepticles in them. Using my '82 Buick Skylark tilt-column would it then be possible to have the stop/directional option of using a single filament bulb for one, and the other for running lights? Is that what you were saying or do integrated directionals only work with double filament bulbs (like 1157s) in that case? I've been thinking that I'd have to use something like Pro's Pick LED bed lites for my directionals and the (2) single filament recepticles in the tail lights for the stop and running lights. Sure would be nice if I could opt for the former and use bed roll plugs instead.

Elder Rodder
Doc here,

OK, If I read your post correctly, your tail lamp BUCKETS have 2 (Ea) single element sockets in each side? (total of 4 to the rear)

If that's the case you can wire the Brake Turn lamps to one socket, and the tail lamps to the other..The Brake/Turns should go through the GM column switch..So those two actually equate to one circuit per side.

The trick is: either you must have separated sockets within the bucket,and lenses (a divider of sorts between the tail/brake&turn) OR find a brighter element bulb for the turn / stops as opposed to the tails..else you won't notice the flash at night..(all at the same luminance)

If different, there are other options..

Doc
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