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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 04:35 PM
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I also now understand a Camaro 5-speed (Borg Warner) will fit....personally would rather have the old school 4-speed, dont care about overdrive's and highway gears etc...

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Old 11-27-2012, 08:34 AM
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Thats the T5. If you want a T5, you would be best suited to having a hybrid T5; V8 camaro guts, S10 mainshaft and S10 tailhousing. The proper S10 tailhsg and mainshaft for this conversion will have the mechanical speedo, and the shifter position is conducive to a bench seat (Street Rods, 55 chevys, pick ups etc). The camaro unit tips the shifter to the drivers side maybe 15 degrees and the shifter is set back a bit (Bucket seats and a console). I had a customer awhile back that had one in a 27 T coupe or early model A (He has both cars, I forget which its in) and the shifter would bump his leg occasionally. You could always make a shifter handle from a piece of stainess and maybe put a boot over the necessary dogleg but it will be a bit wonky.

Brand new Muncies (new case, iron midplate, new tailhousing and new gears) should be in the 1800-2000 dollar bracket; a street rod T5 will be 12-1500.

A double overdrive 6speed is huge in that car, might as well put a saddle on it; and in such a light car, the 2nd OD is pointless

Camaro T5 has a 2.95 1st gear; you could run a 3.08 in the back and never need the OD. Since it has the OD, I'd run a 3.31/3.23 or 3.42, at most a 3.55 for a nice cruiser with plenty of 1st gear.

For a mild 4speed stick car; Id run an M20 with at least 3.42 rear. If you need a beefier trans; skip the rookie stuff; the worst thing GM made was the case, and the pickings are pretty slim with the junk we see today. Get a new case, an IRON midplate and an aftermarket M22 or M22 wide ratio gearset. The cheaper gearsets are made offshore; the more expensive gearsets are made in Italy by Masiero or Euroricambi. If you want to go for the aftermarket gearset, I can send you some names.

If you are building or buying an upgraded Muncie and you don't have a clutch yet; the important thing is usually to keep the same output spline count, BUT I would ask your builder to use a 26 spline input regardless of your output.

If it was me; I would go with a 27 spline output (turbo 350 yoke) because it has more mounting holes on the tailhousing for the shifter 'box' than the 32 spline (turbo 400) tailhousing (which only has 3 holes drilled and tapped)
This means you have more flexibility in getting a comfortable shifter position. I would say this is more important than either the strength of the 32spline output OR even having to rebuild the driveshaft.

An aftermarket Muncie case (Called the 'Supercase' which is cast in America and machined here in house); is approx .150" longer than a factory case; this means your mounting foot on the rear of the trans will be pushed back the same amount, and the slip yoke will have to absorb the same amount as well. This isn't usually a problem as you can usually elongate the mounting holes on the top of your crossmember to solve fitment issues (a stock driveshaft in a musclecar or 3 speed automatic swap usually has no problem if you keep the outputs the same).

For your application, I would get the trans mocked up in the car and plan on having to adjust the crossmember and driveshaft. I can send you a measured drawing of a Supercase - based 'Muncie' (either 27 or 32 spline, they're on the same drawing).

Regarding shifters; older Hurst shifters are better than the new ones. I would rebuild the linkage with the 'Pit Pack' that has the steel parts and not the nylon. Incidentally, I have NO idea what fitment is like with the shifter linkage and your car. I DO know that if you have to bend those rods, bend them COLD and that the 'tabs' on the end of your linkage are VERY hard steel, if you have issues fitting the linkage over the dogleg levers in the sidecover/tailhousing; its best to change the lever not hack up the tab. We make a tabbed washer to fit the smaller 'stud-type' levers in the later, larger 'bolt-on' holes. And contrary to Hurst literature; the 32 spline Turbo 400 sized output is NOT M22 specific; its YEAR specific. You could get an M20 with a 32 spline output. 1970-74 are 32 spline; pre 1970 are 27 spline outputs.

Whew Im tired
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:23 PM
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AutoGear....that is some gooooood stuff!
Thanks!
I'm starting a new thread regarding where to mount the pedals, which I think will have to be hung from under the dash.....
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:41 PM
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curious how much a good muncie costs compared to a TKO 500/600?
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
curious how much a good muncie costs compared to a TKO 500/600?
Prices for brand new transmissions Muncie Trans:
M-22 Rock Crusher 4-speed $2,150.00

M-20 or M-21 4-speed $1500.00

TKO 500 or 600 5-speed $2,295.00
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:37 PM
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That sure makes that decision a lot easier
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:30 AM
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If the customer has an assembled sidecover, tailhousing and shift forks; we can get the cost down a couple hundred bucks.

Different strokes for different folks; I don't like the way the TKO's shift; and I see the list of parts being discontinued for it is starting to grow in length.

For a mild street rod; the $1500 hybrid T5 is probably the best option (Which I do not build or sell).
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by AutoGear View Post
Different strokes for different folks
Agreed. I like the old school feel and the sound of the Muncie's. The side mounted shifters are cool too.


Last edited by lakeroadster; 11-28-2012 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:36 AM
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OK.....now that the M20 has been chosen, I need advice on a clutch assembly and flywheel, and what size bell housing?......not being over 400HP on the Chevy 350, I assume a 10.5 clutch would be plenty? Not going to race, and very little "beating" if any....
(not sure if it matters, but considering hydraulic throw-out bearing)
Thanks in advance....
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:30 AM
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I stay away from flywheels, I'll leave that to you and your engine builder. I have seen the damage from an OEM flywheel; it went off like a bomb and opened up the bottom of a 55 chevy like a P-38 can opener, the drivers door had a chunk of flywheel inside it if I remember correctly.

If you go to an large clutch (11") you'll need a new front bearing retainer (snout) for the transmission. They're not spendy and are made from the same casting as the standard diameter ones.

I prefer a cast bellhousing (iron is fine in this case) for street rods, it usually eliminates the need for the offset dowels, or Quicktime if you have to have a scattershield. the offset dowelpins can be a pain in the butt, but are sometimes necessary along with a dial indicator. If you have to 'dial it in', as little run out as possible is preferred. RobbMc makes some pretty trick offset dowels, but I have very little personal experience with them

For a mild street clutch, we have had good luck with Luk Rep Sets and McLeod dual frictions. I had an awful personal experience with a Centerforce that involved having problems with those wired on weights....never again; but lots of other guys have positive experiences with them
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:43 AM
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McCleod is decent for a clutch,10 1/2 is fine,though the difference in price is not much. Use diaphram style for ease of operation. Buy an S.F.I, steel flywheel and scattershield.(read above post) The time it takes to align a scattershield is a lot less than doing a gear set. If you are too lazy to align a scatter shield then buy a blanket.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
McCleod is decent for a clutch,10 1/2 is fine,though the difference in price is not much. Use diaphram style for ease of operation. Buy an S.F.I, steel flywheel and scattershield.(read above post) The time it takes to align a scattershield is a lot less than doing a gear set. If you are too lazy to align a scatter shield then buy a blanket.
I guess I've forgotten a lot, use to play with this stuff all the time back in the day, (LOL), I dont even remember what a scattershield is or where it goes? Probably because I never had one!
I am thinking 10.5 clutch also, but what is "diaphram style"? also, need a reputable flywheel according to you folks. Any input regarding Hayes clutches?
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:21 AM
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hayes are good clutches too
Scatter shield is a solid steel 2 piece bell housing that is designed to keep exploding parts from coming through the floor and cutting off feet.
A diaphram pressure plate has a bunch of little fingers that act like springs,the throw out bearing rides against them when dis engaging clutch,the multi finger style is much smoother and easier to release that the other 3 or 4 styles( borg n beck long style and before mentioned centrifigal weight enhanced)
never mind multidisc etc
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2012, 12:12 PM
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AGAIN....great info and much appreciated...this "2-piece" bellhousing w/scattershield, is it one size? is it bigger than stock bellhousing (meaning, will I need more room under the floor compared to stock bellhousing?)
And will the clutch size (11" or 10 1/2") determine bellhousing size?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2012, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 31ROC View Post
AGAIN....great info and much appreciated...this "2-piece" bellhousing w/scattershield, is it one size? is it bigger than stock bellhousing (meaning, will I need more room under the floor compared to stock bellhousing?)
And will the clutch size (11" or 10 1/2") determine bellhousing size?
A scattershield will fit where the stock bellhousing did, for the most part. If it's for the 168 tooth flywheel there can be fitment problems if the original bellhousing was for the 153 tooth flywheel. It's made of stronger (and heavier) steel, not cast iron or aluminum.

The flywheel size is what determines what size the bellhousing has to be.

Going by your statements about how the vehicle will be driven, I would recommend a cast aluminum factory bellhousing, a 10.5" clutch, and a hydraulic TOB if that's what's going to be easier for you (I'm guessing the truck was originally AT).

A used bellhousing shouldn't cost much at all, under $100 I would think. Some casting numbers to look for: Need Chevy bellhousing advice

Again- this recommendation is based on what you said. If you go against your own words and over rev this set up and the flywheel chews your leg off, don't blame ME!

An SFI approved steel bellhousing is not cheap, but it will save you and the vehicle from heavy damage. There is a non SFI steel bellhousing made by Lakewood, but I know little about it other than it uses a 153 tooth flywheel, so it should fit well under most any vehicle.

Good luck.

Last edited by cobalt327; 12-12-2012 at 01:56 PM.
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