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Old 01-03-2011, 08:24 PM
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Going to try Gluing a Patch Panel

I am always willing to try something new and on the plate is replacing a damaged area on the side of my Rampside project. I have cut it out and it is about 18X28 inches and relatively flat. Talked with my paint and body supplier about using the relatively new "glue" to attach the new metal vice to old mig stitch I have been using for years. Instead of using a flange tool the site lets me bond a backing plate around the edges and then bond to it , giving me a butt finish and the backing plate will provide additional stiffness to the panel which could be prone to oil caning. My adviser has suggest the slow drying bonding agent vice the quick dry since I am not interested in production. Has anyone got any tricks or advice on my for my first time plunge into this repair?

Trees

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Old 01-03-2011, 09:06 PM
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make sure where you put filler there is no glue under your filler. It dosen't like to stick to the glue.
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:26 PM
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:02 AM
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I've used a lot of it. I've never had any trouble with filler sticking to it...I prefer a flange,it'll help keep the panel straight ,a backing strip wont ,plus if you need to hammer or work the flange it go easily ,a backing strip ,once the glue sets wont be workable...,,grind both surfaces well apply only to bare steel and make real sure there is enough glue in the joint to completely cover the seam so its water tight and no bare metal is exposed to rust later on.
Completely fasten the panel with drill screws (the more th better) 2" apart and make sure it lays down easily and flat with no stress...before you start gluing ,theres a little mixing tube that screws on the end.......throw it out.....mix the glue by hand (like filler),the tube is very wasteful and the glue is very expensive...glue the panel on with all the screws (I like the slower glue also) the next day pull all the screws and grind down the screw holes level and grind any excess glue out of the butt joint,then fill all the screw holes and any voids in the butt joint with more glue (think of it as a glue rivit) after it all drys,grind it all smooth and its ready for filler and primer...
I restored a Carmin Ghia using nothing but glue almost 13 yrs ago and its still holding up well..Now days that glue is too expensive its just not practical to use it if you dont have too ....I like and pefer welding but still ,I always have some glue around ,sometimes its just the best way to do a certain spot...My glue of choice is SEM weld bond adhesive

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Old 01-04-2011, 07:00 AM
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I used SEM panel adheasive per Mike's suggestion to install a fill panel for my firewall. It worked great, no major issues. I did use the slowest set up time material - 90 min, so I had time to get everything clamped properly. Also used the adheasive on several smaller patch panels in areas that would warp easily i.e. the roof.
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:03 PM
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This is something that has had me interested for some time. DB, do you set the panel with the screws, remove the screws, apply the glue, then re-screw the panel? My neighbors 40 Ford has a small hole in the trunk floor, the only rust hole in the entire car, he would have to remove the gas tank, then find someone to weld it. This glue patch deal sounds like a good fix. Harbor Freight better stock up on flangers..lol. Dan
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:58 AM
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Yes ,once the panel is exactly where you want it and the seams are hammered and dollied just right to be flush ,remove all the screws and the panel ,clean the surfaces with W&G remover ,grind,apply the glue (liberally) then reattach the panel with the screws and wait until it drys ...it'll go back on exactly the same way using the previous screw holes and the holes make lining it up quick but use the longest curing glue you can find ,the quick five minute cure is only good for small spots....when the glue drys just grind any high spots in the screw holes (I call them volcanos) fill all the screw holes and voids in the seam if there is any,with more glue.when all that is dry grind every thing flush and epoxy prime or bondo,I like to epoxy first then use filler over that...but it can be done either way.

Dont laugh ,I use a HF flanger/Punch, It works just as good as any other I've had..One of the few tools I'll recomend from there...

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Old 01-05-2011, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad_AZ
I used SEM panel adheasive per Mike's suggestion to install a fill panel for my firewall. It worked great, no major issues. I did use the slowest set up time material - 90 min, so I had time to get everything clamped properly. Also used the adheasive on several smaller patch panels in areas that would warp easily i.e. the roof.
Hey,that looks good conrad. I glued a smoothed fire wall on too.it wasnt easy..
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:17 AM
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Thanks for the replies. DBM, my thoughts on gluing on a flange was for stiffness on a large mostly flat panel. I was going to use flat 1"X1/8" bar stock will provide lots of stiffness and ensure there will be no oil canning on the panel. There are some inner strips with semi-soft rubber to aid in this potential problem and to prevent resonance noise. I was going to use multi clamps on the flat bar to ensure no voids in the glue. The ideal of glue in holes as nails could be accomplished by pre drilling holes in the bar stock and let glue squeeze out. I was going to use flat stock and external bracing from the side wall to hold the patch panel in place until the slow glue sets up. Do you think I could get enough pressure with this method.

Regressing, I was not going to flange the base metal with a flange tool because I have always gotten some distortion doing this. Does the patch panel with enough screws remove this distortion? The whole thought process is to have a distortion free panel that I don't have to spend a lot of time removing with filling and line sanding. I have cut out the distorted/stretched metal section and the remaining base panel is very flat and true. This one patch is the only area of this project that is going to make or break the final appearance and any imperfection is going to stand out like a sore thumb or broken nose.

Trees
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:45 AM
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The flange actually strengthens the joint and make it workable.when you cut a panel of you almost always distort it (the seam) the little edge of the flange will allow you to straighten seam with a hammer and dollie and looking down the edge like a gunsight.But the prep for a good seam is everything whether your gluing or welding It HAS to start out right.The problem is most cars arent straight and flat they have slight curves and contours try putting a straight edge on the good side to see....I have in the past used some 1/4" flat stock aluminum or two 1/8" pieces for curved problem seams.
When doing A curved section you would screw one piece of 1/8" to the back side letting it follow the contour then you would glue the second piece to the first ,when the glue drys it'll maintain the contour... BUT,I found it was much easier to use 1/8" layerd strips of wood for this...if any glue gets on wood in the process its much easier to remove the wood the steel than aluminum..and the wood strips are much easier to work with ,you would use wood glue layering the strips together...basicly your making a form for the sheetmetal to follow....
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:33 AM
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I have to tell you that mixing tube only "wastes" about a table spoon, I measured it once. I use them and don't think a thing about it, just cost of the product.

One important thing is to be sure you grind it well and after you apply your glue to brush it out (I use a little acid brush) to cover ALL the bare metal. Apply it to both surfaces and them don't clamp them real tight, you don't want to squish all the glue out.

And NEVER us wax and grease remover AFTER grinding! NEVER, it isn't a problem, the grinding cleaned that metal better than anything you could use.

Brian
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:22 PM
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DBM,I used the plasma cutter to cut out the panel and have used a 48" straight edge to check the distortion and can not detect any. I have done a lot of plasma cuts for patch panels and find less distortion than any other methods of cutting I have used. I have not dressed the slag edges yet, but they are so minimal there will not be enough heat generated to promote distortion. I am going to give my thoughts a try and will let you know how it turns out

Trees
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:29 PM
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Will Cleco's hold the panels tight enough for glue?

Also wondered if the occasional weld would reduce the "telegraphing" effect?
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:00 AM
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hey trees ,I've had pretty good luck sneaking up on that final cut with tinsnips.

Clecos are a bit expensive I wouldnt use them gluing.... screws,you just throw away.

wheather you clamp ,screw or whatever .....Not too tight,it'll squish out

ONE IMPORTANT NOTE: When making a flange joint ,(especially when welding)flange the original piece not the patch. The open end of the flange should be toward the ground .otherwise it'll collect dirt and moisture like a cup and rust out much quicker...I've seen some guys overlap a panel instead of butting or flanging because it was faster and have it backwards ,it didn't last very long..
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:52 PM
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Offset tin snips are one of my favorite tools for cutting a flawless cut. Check out this thread from a few years ago. (click here to back in time)

Brian
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