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Old 09-30-2011, 01:32 AM
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The Golden Rule

The Golden Rule:


It has come to the attention of the moderating staff here at HR.com that a minor portion of the membership have been violating the membership agreement. Specifically we are referring to the portion of the agreement that refers to personal conduct on the board. This is a relatively grey area of the agreement you signed when you joined this forum and as such is rarely strictly enforced since it is universally regarded as a common sense rule that we assume you were taught as a child.

What am I referring to?

The Golden Rule, treat others as you would have them treat you. Pretty simple really but we are seeing an increase in members breaking the Golden Rule on a regular basis, we expect you as an adult member of this forum to remember this in your postings and not to incite or respond to other members with cruel intentions or words designed to provoke an escalating response.

We can all agree to disagree without inciteful language or name calling, otherwise the moderating staff will simply delete your comments and suspend your privileges for a period of time that we vote is appropriate. If that sounds like a "spanking and being sent to the corner" to contemplate your actions...it is. As your Mom/Dad might have said...we don't like doing it anymore than you like it.

The moderating staff all agree this is not a widespread problem, but it is a problem for some. We have a list of repeat offenders in a special thread in the moderating forum of those that may require special treatment because of their behavior. Needless to say it is as distasteful to us as it sounds, none of us signed up to become babysitters on the internet. We have not acted to date except in exceptional cases but as of today that is changing, this rule applies to your PM's to other members as well...we can't read what you say in your PM's to each other but if you are acting in the background and breaking the "Golden Rule" privately and the receiver complains to us about your actions we will act immediately and decisively.

If you are a bully in public or private on this board you will be suspended, perhaps permanently... I think everyone can agree no one deserves to be harassed on this forum...EVER! You are not anonymous on the web in spite of what you may have read.

My recommendation to all new and existing members is to look at each thread and respond to the OP (original poster) and limit your responses to them taking the golden rule into account. Arguing or name calling to other posters (or the OP!) in that thread means your doing it wrong...very wrong. Let the OP make the decision if your information is worth following or not, you have no right to decide if someones elses information is wrong or not and certainly do not have the right to make an issue with someone else postings in that thread...you might both be wrong. There are plenty of ways to correct a previous posters possible inconsistencies or inaccuracy's without starting a flame war. Proofread your posts prior to hitting that "Submit new post" tab, your words can be taken out of context if you don't.

In particular please treat newer members with respect, they are often young and impressionable and may have come from another forum where the rules are different and simply do not know what is acceptable here, in that case let us do our job and we will moderate as seen fit. We appreciate those who identify threads that do not fit into the forum etiquette such as threads that are obvious advertisements etc...but sending us notifications when a thread is "dumb" or if the poster appears to be spelling/language challenged...is not necessary. We get enough e-mail to choke a large farm animal everyday and you letting us know if a member has spelling issues is none of your concern.


Please act as if your Mom would be reading what you write, maybe she is...remember we really hate being your MOM!

Thanks for listening, your contributions to this forum are extremely valuable and timeless...you don't want your children to be reading how poorly you treated other people here...rather we would prefer them to look back and say;

"Wow he/she really knew their stuff, being able to go back in time and see what he/she was saying back then is great! Whats an internal combustion engine?"


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Old 09-30-2011, 05:45 AM
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Oft quoted by Trees: " I make enough mistakes unintentionally without intentionally doing something wrong"

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Old 10-02-2011, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trees
Oft quoted by Trees: " I make enough mistakes unintentionally without intentionally doing something wrong"

Trees
I agree totally,but to quote George Carlin" It would not be a mistake if it were intentional"LOL.
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Old 10-03-2011, 01:10 AM
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I have left a message board before because I couldn't properly follow that rule. Not that I got kicked off, I just decided not to go there because it didn't bring out the best in me. So I recommend that if you struggle at a board it might be best to leave it.
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 Jaw Chuck
The Golden Rule:
Really, whether this exact document is enforceable or whether it's too vague or whether it's taken to heart verbatum- the main idea is for guys like myself to keep things civil. Nothing wrong w/that, we ALL need to be occasionally reminded when things cross some point from "strongly stated" to "shoving it down someone's throat". The point is made and noted, and the time/effort you put into drafting it is also duly noted.

OT- 4 Jaw, you shouldn't have reneged on the offer you made to me on 7-16-10 (oh hell no, I haven't forgotten!). To coin a phrase, "Keep your friends close and those you wish to rein in closer..."
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:56 AM
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Cobalt, I'm not sure how to say this nicely so I'm not going too.

You are one of the worst offenders regarding this rule, in the future please respond to the OP in all your posts and do not engage in inciteful remarks to other members.

Its not open for discussion and we are not discussing if its vague or unenforceable, it is neither. I will not be responding to taunts or challenges from you regardless of the date, these forums are not a soapbox for you to stand on. The part that bothers me is you have considerable knowledge to share if only you could follow this one simple rule.

Sorry I couldn't sugar coat it, consider it a warning.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 Jaw Chuck
Cobalt, I'm not sure how to say this nicely so I'm not going too.

You are one of the worst offenders regarding this rule, in the future please respond to the OP in all your posts and do not engage in inciteful remarks to other members.

Its not open for discussion and we are not discussing if its vague or unenforceable, it is neither. I will not be responding to taunts or challenges from you regardless of the date, these forums are not a soapbox for you to stand on. The part that bothers me is you have considerable knowledge to share if only you could follow this one simple rule.

Sorry I couldn't sugar coat it, consider it a warning.
If you bothered to read the thread HERE, you would already know that I know what's up. So as long as the rules are the same for EVERYONE, I have no problem w/it whatsoever. What I think would be wrong is if I were to be held to a different standard than ANY OTHER MEMBER.

Taunts and challenges? What I was referring to above, was when you asked me to participate at a different 'level' than a member. If it touched a nerve when I brought it up, I cannot help that- but if you think it was something else, you are wrong. The rules suggest I not quote the PM- but you remember, I'm sure. You said in effect that the whole staff was in agreement w/the idea and that the rest was basically a mere formality. But you know what? I haven't changed how I conduct myself one bit between then and now. I find it odd that I was good enough THEN, but now I'm being warned for how I might answer a post. Or was the whole deal a bad joke?

Last edited by cobalt327; 10-03-2011 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:36 PM
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There is a zero tolerance policy and it affects everyone.

Walk the walk.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 Jaw Chuck
There is a zero tolerance policy and it affects everyone.

Walk the walk.
Was the "walk the walk" necessary? If I did that in a thread, would it be considered to be an " inciteful remark"? It seems like this is a "do as I say, not as I do" thing.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:35 PM
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I just noticed this is the Lounge (I get threads from clicking on "Today's Posts, not from each individual forum), so going by the Hotrodders Guidelines-- READ ME sticky:

Quote:
Don't use foul language in the tech forums. We're not Mother Teresa here, but when asking or responding to questions in the tech categories, try to keep it PG-13. You can reserve the more casual talk for discussions in the Hotrodders' Lounge, or in the Dump.
"Walk the walk" isn't foul language, I suppose you can call it "casual", although some could and would take it as inflammatory or inciting an escalation of words. Although walk the walk is a bit confusing in this context. Maybe "toe the line" would be more appropriate. Just trying to get up to speed here.

On the "Say it once and that's it" deal, the 'problem' as I see it is a new guy (who is the target audience, after all) is not going to know the difference between one guy's correct info and the next guys incorrect info w/o the discrepancies being pointed out and/or explained. The idea that, as a provider of info, one is supposed to just say what they think and then totally ignore every post that has come before or after their post is not likely to happen. The whole idea is to provide good, reliable info. If that means correcting some incorrect info, then so be it. Often this leads to some back-and-forth. And sure, sometimes things get heated. As long as it is technically-oriented, IMO it should be allowed to run its natural course. Maybe not quoting a previous post will help to keep people from getting upset...

Last edited by cobalt327; 10-03-2011 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:50 PM
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You are number 13 on the list of most ignored members on this forum Cobalt, the 12 ahead of you no longer participate or have been banned. I hope that puts things in perspective.

At some point it stops being worth the hassle for us to put up with the constant complaints. You obviously have a lot to share and know a great deal but this passive aggressive behaviour is not acceptable, I'm sure in real life you would not act in this manner as its doubtful you would get very far in life.

We have clearly defined the boundaries of etiquette on this forum as best we can, its not debatable, its not open for discussion, we won't make an exception.

Can you take that as the last word and leave it?
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:48 PM
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I'm mainly interested in helping those who come here w/a question or three and stay until they get what they need, and then either never return or only return if they have some other questions.

In other words I'm not here to make friends, per se. And if every "regular" here wanted nothing to do w/me, somehow I would manage anyway because simply put- they are not my focus. There are a few guys here that I think highly of and they know who they are. But I am more concerned for the masses of guys who are looking for some help, not the guys who already know it all, mostly. Even the guys who obviously are not English-first and are hard to understand. Even the guys who are basically clueless. Even guys who no one else bothers to answer- as long as they come across sincere, I'll give it my best shot.

And despite my near-record-setting ranking for being ignored, at the end of the day my satisfaction comes from the posts and all the PM's I get thanking me- you see them, so you know. And I appreciate your acknowledgement of whatever small contribution I have made here.

I stated back at Post #5 my take on it, and even acknowledged the effort you put into the whole deal. For whatever reason this was met w/extreme hostility, which I admit I don't fully understand. But I believe it would be better for all concerned for us to not let our anger at one thing influence our response to something entirely different. I'm not looking for a debate, discussion or exception to anything. But simply put I do believe that as a member of Hotrodders dot com, I should be free to discuss this or any other subject that is germane to this forum and my membership in it.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:03 PM
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There is absolutely no hostility on my or any other mods part, this is a rule, its not open for discussion because it has already been discussed and decided on. You don't have to like it, but you have to abide by it. You cannot change it and our discussion here makes others think the rules should not apply to you for some reason. I only wrote out what was discussed, I did not invent this rule any more than why we drive on he right side and not the left. If you want to drive on the left expect your license to be taken away after the horrific crash which would be inevitable.

Its as simple as that, and that is the last word.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:03 PM
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Its interesting to see the mods moving to a more conservative stance at this late date. That's the reason I quit moderating. With the new influx of mods we had at the time the prevailing thought was directed right along the Rodney King "Cant we all just get along" line. Now it would seem the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction.

I wish you guys good luck with this policy but I also see at least one, for the lack of any other term, unenforceable section. Its not even remotely realistic to expect people to address the OP on every response, especially when someone else has jumped in and provided inaccurate or bogus information. I for one will not sit by and watch that happen. That's not why we are here. If someone spouts BS info then they should be called on it and corrected. Many times a discussion results which is valuable not only to the OP but also the offending individual and this policy will cut that exchange off entirely.

I believe the mods will find this whole thing a bit hard to manage. Nice idea but if you intend to enforce it as rigidly as you say, Jon will need about 50 more mods to handle the work. Good luck guys.

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Old 10-03-2011, 11:58 PM
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Its not a rule designed to limit discussion, it is one that was discussed as a simple "rule of life" that we use in everyday speach. You don't argue with every person you meet in everyday interactions so why would it be acceptable here.

There is no reason why the rule should cause you reason to change the way you interact on the board unless you come onto the forum with an axe to grind or an agenda to push or specifically denegrate or demean other forum members.

Of all people Centerline I would expect you to understand that it isn't a change in policy but an evolution, nothing ever stays the same forever and you have been around long enough to know of specific members that would have been weeded out long before they caused the trouble they did if this rule had been enacted.

Just remember this is our rule, one that was asked for by the membership in volume through multiple emails and PMs to us collectively. We voted on it as a group and wrote the guideline, we distilled it until it seemed like a simple enough rule that anyone could follow it...as you can tell it was based on a basic life rule everyone was taught.

There are plenty of other website forums where members swear at each other and create drama that leads to loss of membership by the silent majority. Make no mistake it is this majority who do the most posting and make use of the board en masse.

They don't argue on the board or start fights they just send a PM or email and leave, their numbers far exceed the few who cause 99.99% of the problems. Its not worth it, never has been never will.

You ask how we will enforce it, I ask why wouldn't we. It won't take 50 more mods when less than 0.01% are the problem. If you do the math on 50 000 members you can see how such a small minority can cause the most damage.

What you won't see is that 99.9% on this thread complaining about the "common sense" rule, that silence you hear is clapping.
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