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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2004, 03:02 PM
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all depends on what you are trying to do.

If your primary focus is on doing patch panels and whatnot...and you want a VERY GOOD LOOKING patch, with minimal bondo, I'd go with....

OXY ACET and a very small torch.

I own a Hobart 125 and it's a good little machine. I've used it for several patch panels now. Everyone is right, it can't handle the big stuff...but then again, if you don't know which welder to buy, do you plan on welding Chassis and Motor Mounts and Suspensions? probably not. Even if I had the most expensive welder in the world, I wouldn't trust myself to weld something structural.


Now as far as patch panels etc. A good job can be done with MIG. I think the popularity of MIG probably stems from Body shops using them because they are quick, easy etc. Only thing is, and I feel this with my own mig...it's too fast. Even set to slow wire speed, it's way too fast, I end up with too much filler etc.

I tried gas welding a couple of pieces of 19 gauge together with oxy-acet, and the welds came out beautifully. Especially after they were plannished and massaged. The master metal workers mostly use gas or tig...not mig.

With airplanes, tons of sheetmetal...what do they use? Either TIG or GAS.

Look for the post MIG vs GAS or something like that...good info and pictures. Randy Ferguson shows what can be done with MIG if you know what you're doing...I show what you can do with GAS even if you don't know what you're doing.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2004, 03:11 PM
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I bought the handy-core wire-feed mig welder that lincoln offers. I like it and so far it's been great. I really hope it's strong enough to weld motor mounts.

Mike
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Old 07-07-2004, 11:28 PM
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the right welder

If you guys dont mind : Im 52 been fixing up cars all my life but dont know the first thing about welding . Ive always had to have someone to do that for me . The biggest problem here in Louisiana is rust , so if your going to build on a project you have to cut out sheetmetal or replace . So can I just buy a cheap Mig welder say at Walmart ? they have 2 models , how would the higher priced one which is $279 work? It is a Campbel Haufield and has a hook up for gas . Would this be sufficient to use to replace rusty sheetmetal with new?(- floorboards) ? thanks , Mike
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Old 07-08-2004, 09:03 PM
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Any brand name mig is good. My friend has a Lincoln and it works flawlessly. I just have a Century that was given to me. It works good also. I had a hard time switching from stick to mig, but after my cousin convinced me to put the gas conversion kit on, with the argon gas, my welds instantly looked like a pro.

I would strongly urge you to get the gas conversion kit for the particular brand that you buy. You will not be disappointed.

Hollywoodbob
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Old 07-08-2004, 09:33 PM
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I purchased a Lincoln 135A Mig last fall, took less that an hour to start welding with it, and I had no previous experiance welding, other than just helping my buddy. Mine came with the gas kit, and will weld up to 1/8 inch with no problem using .030 wire. Load it with .023 wire and it will weld the thin body panels on newer cars with no problem. It takes a little practice to make a bead that is strong & deep enough without extra material on top that you have to grind off ( oh how I hate grinding!! ). From what i have found, it seems to work best if you find the highest current that won't blow holes in the sheetmetal, then just weld it with small 1/2 - 1 inch stitches, allowing LOTS of time for it to cool as you go, an air hose helps out with the cooling, as long as ya got a good compressor.

Supposedly, my MIG can handle up to 1/4 inch if you use the flux-core gasless wire, but that defeats the main purpose of using a MIG!!
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Old 07-09-2004, 04:59 AM
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My sons and I are beginners. They want to weld tube frames so we bought a Miller 180 SD TIG welder.

I am in the process of running 100 amp to my car garage. Since the house is rented I just split the service and put in a meter for billing purposes.

Need to find someone local to help me learn how to TIG weld. I understand I can also stick weld with this unit.

Anyone know anything about TIG welding or have any suggestions?

Dane
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610-896-0217
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2004, 05:48 AM
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ME Beginner welder home only.

Hi yall Well i was going to get the Lincoln 175 unit because i have 220 volt in my garage also,,but i chose to save a few bucks and just got the 110v . Its great so far and i only just started last saturday. Iam still learning from my piers at work who are pros and i learned a good tip ..when adjusting the speed of the wire because i had a problem. i was told to squeeze the trigger and hold the gun at the same time while adjusting the wire speed and wait for the sound to be steady and smooth and it worked great,,So i think the lincoln 110 unit which is the homedepot 3200hd with the gas bottle i got also 75/25 is a great start for me and if i need parts i can run to any home depot and there all over also so im happy with my little lincoln. good luck yall. Don
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2004, 10:05 AM
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Personally I like MIG, I think it's easier to learn and you can go pretty deep if you have high enough voltage and thick enough wire. I learned the most by taking a class, once a week for 10 weeks, it was lots of fun and it was through the community college. I suggest that everyone who is just beginning look into something like that, because they showed me MIG and TIG, plus they had plasma cutter and cutting torches. They'll teach you different techniques like welding above you and on verticals. I also got a feel for different machines and I know that when I get serious about welding I'm getting a Lincoln, they rock! Plus my teacher was very informative, he makes 80K a year welding airplane engine blocks, so he definitely knew what he was doing.
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Old 07-09-2004, 03:39 PM
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Re: ME Beginner welder home only.

Quote:
Originally posted by indydrt
i was told to squeeze the trigger and hold the gun at the same time while adjusting the wire speed
Indy, definitely read what the manufacture says about this practice. I know on my hobart they specifically say not to do this. So I have never switched the dials with the trigger on. There is a chance you could fry your machine doing that...so just check for your own safety.

I still have to put another plug in for welding with gas on sheetmetal. The welds are far superior to mig imo and just as easy if not easier than using mig.
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Old 07-10-2004, 09:51 AM
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Dials?

Hey bud..
Well thanks for the advice Unstable.i will look at what the Mfg says..i will not be adjusting the Voltage while i have the trigger squeezed if that is what you meant?? Only the wire Speed.
So it did work great and i started to weld 1/8 and thicker metals for practice only and and see what happens etc then readjust according to see if the metal got hot enough,,,anyway i took my sample weld to my friend at work who worked for Roush Racing for a while and told me that my welds looked good but they were to high or tall and mainly because i probably was not getting the thick plate hot enough. So its a learning process i don't plan to do any structural welding to soon in the future only patch panels and brackets etc for now,,but thanks man take care. Indy
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2004, 12:16 AM
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Info on mIG welds

I'm a CWI (certified welding inspector)
and have my own Lincoln mig.

I got the 220v one so i can weld
thicker metal.

There are several types of MIG welding.
The common type with the small ones is "short arc" mig. It was developed for sheet metal, has relatively less penetration so it won't burn thru the
base metal as quickly. You can turn it down to weld very thin material.

One can make a nice looking short arc mig weld that won't hold anything - if not done right it can lay on the surface like a bead of silicone caulk and not be fused into the base metal.

Flux core is good for heavier material.
You can go without gas which is more common with the smaller machines and is OK for most welding.

A better weld for heavy stuff is gas shielded flux core, using a wire such as a 71T-11. That has a different polarity than the gasless flux core which helps make deeper penetration into the base metal. By using the smallest size available, reversing the polarity from gasless fluxcore, and turning mine all the way up, I'm able to get into globular transfer which is a better penetrating mode of weld metal transfer and makes a very strong weld, including "out of position" or other than flat position. Can't quite get it into spray mode of transfer which is the strongest but only works in flat position.

Definitely stay name brand. Check the Lincoln website - they have a neat
optional attachment that turns the mig into a stitch welder - an adjustable timer than turns the voltage on/off rapidly allowing nearly continuous welding of thin metal without warping.

So - a mig weld using "short arc" can be strong, but only if done right to get
penetration and fusion of weld and base metal. The typical mig wire and typical stick rod uses the same strength filler metal. Typical stick welding will penetrate more.
Either is as strong for practical purposes if done right. Short arc is for thinner metal, stick is better on thicker rather than thinner metal. Flux core does a great job on either, varying voltage, wire speed and wire size.
Most mild steel is about 60,000 psi tensile strength. Mig wire of any type is 70,000 tensile. Stick can be either 60 or 70. Both also can be done with filler metals up over 100. At home welding with stick is usually done with a 60 strength rod such as 6010 or 6011 or even 6013 which is real easy to weld with but 6010 or 6011 usually makes a little better weld.

If learning, get "the welder's handbook", talk to an experienced welder and to the people in the welding supply store, get help if you can, and practice, practice, practice. It's fun!
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Old 07-11-2004, 10:17 AM
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Macx
Thanks good advice. I'm having fun with my Lincoln,,any tips other than what the mfg for cleaning tips etc..or nozzle?
By the way in the pic of my 33 roadster this was all done by Adams Rod Shop not me,,no way i'm not that good ..lol!!
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Old 07-11-2004, 10:33 AM
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Welder

I am not an expert on either machine. I do both types of welding though. I like a MIG for the ease of welding. Stick is a little more complicated. Thats why most folks give up on Stick. If your welding sheet metal, MIG is great. You can weld 1/2, 5/8 inch stuff if welder is big enough. You have to turn up the heat, play with the wire speed a bit, but if the welder himself is not familiar with the welding process, you have got a mess. It heats up and then you have a helluva hole. As far as tensile strenth, to me Stick is better. A 6010 and a 7018 is all I use anyway. A 6010 rod is a *junkyard* rod as I call it. You can throw it in the mud, pick it up and weld on greasy , nasty, wet steel with it. It just dont make a pretty weld with out alot of clean up. 7018, the area has to be clean, and makes a very pretty weld. 7018 has a tensile strength of 70,000 lbs per sq.in. 6010 is 60,000 lbs per sq. in. I think that is pretty strong. MIG just aint gonna compete. Either one, you have to make sure it *burns* into the existing steel around it. For what you are doing, a MIG will do fine, considering you have the machine for it and the patience to practice before you try to tie a frame together. Its all in what the welder likes to work with, Some are more comfortable with Stick, some with Mig. I do both, and depending on what I am welding on. As far as the Bridge and Building dilemma. They still use the traditional way because it is stronger. Plus 40/50 years ago no one even knew what a MIG welder was. All they have to run with is a lead, and rods. I worked on a pipeline years back. These tanks were storage for fuel of all kinds. We used stick, another Co. used the remote Mig. We didnt leak. They did. We were also Xrayed, we had less porosity than them too. That why I like stick on heavier stuff. I was shown the difference. As far as machines, Lincoln, Hobart make damn good machines. I personally like Lincoln. Stick with quality equipment, it will stay with you for a long time. Miller also is another good Machine. Either way you decide to go, just practice first. They are both good methods, just different strokes for different folks. I thought I would give my 2 cents, even though it aint worth but 1 cent, but hope it might help. I wish all the the people that are out here doing the DIY way the best of luck on all your projects. Hope all turns out great. Be safe though. We all need all yall around for a bit longer.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2004, 12:25 PM
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Hey all! Just joined

I have a Miller 90 amp(115 volt), bought it in 86 (?) Built many cars, (Pro street chassis') change 1 tip so far, original nozle and works great for .130" stuff. I trust the single pass welds for anything up to 3/16", anything that has to be STRONG (9" housings etc) I use the stick. For a beginner a similar unit would work fine (actual welding skills to be taken into account).
Henry
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Old 07-12-2004, 01:33 PM
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bridges ect are built using sticks because they provide thier own sheilding, migs do not do as well in conditions that are windy ect such as outside as the sheilding gas gets blown away with even a small amount of wind.
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