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-   -   good beginner welder. (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/good-beginner-welder-42262.html)

swain66 06-25-2004 03:42 AM

good beginner welder.
 
I am going to get a mig welder am not sure what to buy.
are the small hobart or lincoln $300 welders good?
are they strong to weld motor mounts and for chop tops etc.?
thanks,

Centerline 06-25-2004 07:14 AM

I have the small Lincoln welder and it has performed flawlessly for the last 6 or 7 years. Whatever welder you buy just make sure it's a "brand" name. The el-cheapo's are mostly made in Europe and can't be fixed locally. Lincoln, Hobart any of the big names will work just fine.

Centerline

302 Z28 06-25-2004 09:09 AM

The 110 volt models are just about perfect for welding the sheet metal of bodies, but fall short when you try and weld frame components IMO. It is a combination of not being able to weld in one pass the thicker material and the duty cycle of the welder.

Whatever you go with, take the above advice and go with a brand name. Jump right in and start sticking things together. In short order you will find yourself making good looking welds. The MIG welder is an excellent learning tool.

Vince

4 Jaw Chuck 06-25-2004 09:59 AM

I would weld motor mounts with stick not MIG, just my preference.:cool:

daimon1054 06-27-2004 04:17 PM

IMO a good MIG weld is as good as a stick but as said most MIG's out are the 110V units and they are just not enough for thicker stuff.

I do say MIG is much easier for me and much more versitile, I do have a stick unit for the thick stuff though.

BoomerADF 06-28-2004 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by daimon1054
IMO a good MIG weld is as good as a stick but as said most MIG's out are the 110V units and they are just not enough for thicker stuff.

I do say MIG is much easier for me and much more versitile, I do have a stick unit for the thick stuff though.

A stick weld is always going to be stronger. I am not saying you cant get a strong weld with a MIG just that the stick will be stronger.

daimon1054 06-28-2004 07:52 PM

??? I hear that a lot but I was not sure so I went to a friend who was a certified welder on a Nuclear Sub so I know he knows what he is talking about.

1 both processes use a filler metal that is stronger than the base metal so both are stronger than the surrounding metal.
2 theoretically both would be of equal strength if both welds were free of imperfections, imperfections weaken the weld and MIG welding is the cleaner welding method so that means it is the stronger weld.
3 A Very good stick welder, when he brakes his arc should have a 16th of and inch of flux beyond the electrode, that means the filler was going molten inside the flux. If he is very good then he can lay a bead = to a MIG but a good stick welder will only lay a bead = to a mediocre MIG welder and a mediocre stick welder as most are should never bet his life on his weld.

So a stick weld will not always be stonger than a MIG in fact the opposite is almost always true.

Tim240Z 06-28-2004 08:56 PM

I bought a 230Volt gasless MIG (oxymoron) Chicago Electric welder from Harbor freight. It welds the heavy gauge stuff just great, but get into some thin stuff and it is very difficult....not impossible, but time consuming. Works great on heavy stuff. I built my 240Z completely with it, including VERY extensive bodywork/repairs.
I just bought a Miller 135 with the 75/25 gas bottle setup. HOLY CRAP!!! my welds look like pro TIG welds in comparison. I was going to sell the CE 230V welder to offset the price of the Miller, but I think I will keep it for the Chassis stuff on the 40 Chevy project and use the Miller for sheetmetal.

Tim

BoomerADF 06-29-2004 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by daimon1054
??? I hear that a lot but I was not sure so I went to a friend who was a certified welder on a Nuclear Sub so I know he knows what he is talking about.

1 both processes use a filler metal that is stronger than the base metal so both are stronger than the surrounding metal.
2 theoretically both would be of equal strength if both welds were free of imperfections, imperfections weaken the weld and MIG welding is the cleaner welding method so that means it is the stronger weld.
3 A Very good stick welder, when he brakes his arc should have a 16th of and inch of flux beyond the electrode, that means the filler was going molten inside the flux. If he is very good then he can lay a bead = to a MIG but a good stick welder will only lay a bead = to a mediocre MIG welder and a mediocre stick welder as most are should never bet his life on his weld.

So a stick weld will not always be stonger than a MIG in fact the opposite is almost always true.

A good looking bead does not make a strong bead.

The stick is stronger due to the fact it makes a deeper thus stronger weld on the same pass. You can get just as strong of a bead from a mig welder but you may take 3 passes with the mig compared to 1 pass with the stick.

daimon1054 06-29-2004 05:51 AM

no one said good looking I said free of contamanation! You are going to tell me you know more than a welder who did this on submarines? OK

You are wrong.

BoomerADF 06-29-2004 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by daimon1054
no one said good looking I said free of contamanation! You are going to tell me you know more than a welder who did this on submarines? OK

You are wrong.

Never said I knew more than him. But I do ask why do they use stick welders on buildings and bridges etc if they are so poor?

"If he is very good then he can lay a bead = to a MIG but a good stick welder will only lay a bead = to a mediocre MIG welder and a mediocre stick welder as most are should never bet his life on his weld."

I took that statement to be talking about the look of the bead not the strength of it.

daimon1054 06-29-2004 11:35 PM

They use stick on bridges because
1 the welder is a pro
2 ever try and push a wire thourgh 500 feet of line? Remote locations are the home of stick welding, on a sub he used a stick because the welder might be one one end and the hole several hundred feet on the other and there would be no way to use a mig.

I never said that stick was poor, what I said was a stick in the hand of a very good welder the weld was as good as a mig could lay down.

But not many people are that good, I can lay a good bead but I had it exrayed once and there were a bunch of little problems. Oxydation starts right away if any air is present and you have to be good to keep the electrode molten inside the flux. On a MIG the gas encompases a much larger area so keeping the area oxygen free is much easier. Again I agree that you have to have proper penetration but you also have to have a clean bead.

BoomerADF 06-30-2004 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by daimon1054
They use stick on bridges because
1 the welder is a pro
2 ever try and push a wire thourgh 500 feet of line? Remote locations are the home of stick welding, on a sub he used a stick because the welder might be one one end and the hole several hundred feet on the other and there would be no way to use a mig.

I never said that stick was poor, what I said was a stick in the hand of a very good welder the weld was as good as a mig could lay down.

But not many people are that good, I can lay a good bead but I had it exrayed once and there were a bunch of little problems. Oxydation starts right away if any air is present and you have to be good to keep the electrode molten inside the flux. On a MIG the gas encompases a much larger area so keeping the area oxygen free is much easier. Again I agree that you have to have proper penetration but you also have to have a clean bead.


Isn't that why they make remote feeders? To take care of this issue? I am simply asking because I dont know.

And I agree a clean bead is a just as big of a part of good bead as proper penetration.

daimon1054 06-30-2004 07:53 AM

Most remote feeders are just wire feeders, a wire feed welder is not a mig welder just a stick with a real long stick:mwink:
He is not a fan of wire feed flux core welders, he said the electrode is not large enough to contain the arc within the flux or something to that effect, I was glassing over about that point, never ask a Navy guy about something:drunk: Last if you had a remote feed gas unit but were good enough welder to use a stick right why would you drag all that around?

My point is not for the pro welder it is for the average guy like most of us here. I can build a frame using a mig and would trust it but would not realy with a stick. The average guy just is not good enough to weld corectly using a stick but with just a little practice he can be a good MIG welder. Again there are times where a stick, MIG or TIG will be the right choice, one is not right all the time that is why there are more than one choice.

jmanz69 06-30-2004 08:16 PM

To get back to the point of the thread... I just bought a Lincoln 175 MIG. It does the thin stuff great, absolutely no problems doing sheet metal, and does the thicker stuff great too. If you get any welder, make sure you get one that is either set up for gas, or one that can be. The gas makes a much cleaner weld, especially on sheet metal. That means less grinding. The flux wire is really ment for outdoor welding. The gas will just blow away with the wind. The flux core wire will work like a stick welder electrode. By the way, that's why they use stick welders on bridges and buildings. The gas does not handle wind very well. Get a 240 Volt welder if you have the voltage available in your garage/workshop. You will be glad to be able to do the thicker stuff and the duty cycle on a 240 Volt welder is higher than a 120 Volt. That means it won't have to cool down as often. I got mine off ebay for a steal. I wanted this exact welder, but didn't have the $600+ for it retail. I came across a good deal and got just what I wanted at a price I was willing to pay.

Do some research about the different brands and what their strengths and weaknesses are. They all do things a little different. Lincoln has a wider range than the Miller of the same catagory. It will turn down a little lower to do sheet metal better. That is why I went that route. It's all up to you. Make sure the one you get will do what you want and will last a long time.


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