good combo - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2005, 11:41 PM
1969NovaSS's Avatar
turbo lag......yeeeeehaaaaaaw
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: oxnard,ca
Age: 27
Posts: 685
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
good combo

My freind asked me to help him build him an engine. He can get a 400 30 over fresh from a machine shop.I would like to know if this sounds like a good combo. this car will be used mostly on the strip and minimal street use if any.
400 .030 over
motown 220 cc iron heads
9.8-1 cr
the following items i cant really decide on:
He has both a torker 2 and a perf rpm
he has 650 speed demon(dont know if its big enough)
hyd. roller exteme energy 288/294 @.050 236/242 lift-520/540 OR
hyd roller magnum 286/286 @.050-230/230 lift-560/560
it will have 4.11 a locker,2800 stall, and a 27" tire If someone could help me finish off the list i would really appreciate it. also if some one could run this through a desktop dyno that would be great as well.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2005, 08:38 AM
firestone's Avatar
http://teamrfc.gospelcom.net
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fenton MI
Age: 32
Posts: 1,743
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I dont know if you have already bought the heads or not, but I would either reccomend a smaller head or a larger cam and more compression. Those heads are designed to run at a high RPM. The cam is not. That is going to make the motor feel sloppy instead of having a good snap to it when you give it gas. I think the 236 242 cam would be the better choice out of the two, but with a set of 200 cc heads instead of the 220's. In order for a cam to match the 220cc heads, I would think it would need around 260@.050 duration and more compression.

The motown website does not recommend a powerband for the heads, but there is the AFR site for the 220 heads. The two heads, being the same size should make power in a simiar range. The AFR 220s are recommended for 4500-8500 RPM. That would not match a cam that is recommended for 2500-6000 very well. I would look into the 200cc Iron eagles. Also, I would recommend the performer RPM intake. If you were able to run 12:1 compression and a cam in the range recommend above along with a victor JR, then the 220 heads are the way to go and it would be better suited for the track. Keep in mind though that if you run a larger cam and the larger heads that you will have to run a larger stall, probably in the 4500 range.

http://www.airflowresearch.com/pages/220sbc_rh.htm

Adam
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2005, 09:14 AM
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Waco,Tx
Posts: 28
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well to make in decision like on the stall we would need to know what the engine would be goin in or the weight of it. And you said it would be strip use and lil on the street. Well as in strip will it be bracket or for fun? Oh and what RPM are you shooting for?

David
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2005, 12:01 AM
1969NovaSS's Avatar
turbo lag......yeeeeehaaaaaaw
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: oxnard,ca
Age: 27
Posts: 685
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
good combo

I looked the motown heads up in my paw catalog and it said its range was 2500-6000 and that is the same as the cam so i thought it would match it. he doesnt want to spin it faster than 6k.Its a 69 chevelle and the car weighs 3450 at the moment but will be adding fiberglass hood, trunk, bumpers and maybe fenders.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2005, 01:27 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WA.
Age: 57
Posts: 507
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
14 to 1 compression. Have a cam grinder set you up with a solid roller cam and yes you will need more carb. What is limiting your rpm to 6000? Throw a good crank, rods and forged pistons at it and let the grinder tell you where to shift at. Trade the 4.11s for 4.88s. You do this and you will have a solid 10 second chevelle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2005, 09:01 AM
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Waco,Tx
Posts: 28
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I like the magnum cam and you will have to run quite a bit larger stall than a 2300. I would take all the final specs of the engine and what gear and tranny your gonna run and contact a converter company and they will be able to tell you the correct stall to use.

Since you wanna stay around 6000 rpm the RPM intake will be good.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2005, 10:09 AM
bracketeer's Avatar
489 Lemans
 

Last journal entry: Street Legal
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Courtenay, BC, CehNehDeh
Age: 55
Posts: 2,139
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Because of the length of stroke, I chose to use cap screw rods in my 400. I had a Crane .500 302 duration flat tappet cam which fit fine. I just installed a Comp XR282HR .510/.520 roller. The rods hit the cam on #s 1,5,2, and 6 cylinders. I had to shave the rods up to .050 to clear the cam.
__________________
[URL]http://members.shaw.ca/g.body.building[/URL]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2005, 10:20 AM
firestone's Avatar
http://teamrfc.gospelcom.net
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fenton MI
Age: 32
Posts: 1,743
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Are you sure that RPM range was for the 220cc heads? They also make a 205cc version. Usually, a 220cc runner is used in high RPM or really large displacement applications. I know guys running 220cc heads in 360 sprint car motors which are designed for the highest RPM only. If you overhead your motor, it will not make good hp or torque. I would think about the 205cc heads. My guess is that the motor will be a dog under 3000 RPM with the 220 cc heads.

Adam
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2005, 11:38 AM
1969NovaSS's Avatar
turbo lag......yeeeeehaaaaaaw
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: oxnard,ca
Age: 27
Posts: 685
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
good combo

the rotating assembly consists of a cast steel crank, stage 2 I- beam rods, and some sealed power forged pistons.Is it safe to spin that faster than 6k with arp rod bolts, and studded mains?
Brackateer: where you using I beams or H beams? and did you have to do a lot of clearencing?And when you grind on it doesnt that throw off the balance and potentially make the rod weaker?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2005, 11:51 AM
bracketeer's Avatar
489 Lemans
 

Last journal entry: Street Legal
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Courtenay, BC, CehNehDeh
Age: 55
Posts: 2,139
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
use SCAT forged 5.7 I-beam rods. I should have stated that in first post. The cap screw rods give about 1/4 inch more clearance to the cam. If I used a regular I-beam rod I would have had to cut the entire rod bolt head off, since it is about a 1/4 inch high.

Cylinders 1 and 2 share the same journal, as well as 5 and 6, but they are 90 deg from each other on the crank. If they were 180 deg away I would feel better about it. I was told that it was not an issue for the amount of material I removed. My rotating assembly was balanced with ring gear and balancer.

You were talking about going to a .540 roller. That's even more you will have to grind off.
__________________
[URL]http://members.shaw.ca/g.body.building[/URL]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2005, 01:10 PM
1969NovaSS's Avatar
turbo lag......yeeeeehaaaaaaw
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: oxnard,ca
Age: 27
Posts: 685
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
good combo

soo do you think it would be a better choice to go to a flat tappet cam? sounds like i would have a lot of "clearencing " to do to make that cam work.
so should i go with a magnum 292 cam(adv dur-292/292 @.050-244/244 lift.501) and use 1.6 rockkers to get a 534 lift?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2005, 03:31 PM
bracketeer's Avatar
489 Lemans
 

Last journal entry: Street Legal
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Courtenay, BC, CehNehDeh
Age: 55
Posts: 2,139
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
You can do that but you will still have to check piston to valve clearance. I am doing mine this weekend.
__________________
[URL]http://members.shaw.ca/g.body.building[/URL]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2005, 04:57 PM
coldknock's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Social Circle, Ga.
Age: 43
Posts: 1,528
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
A small base circle cam would fix the clearance issue.

The heads are fine.

You need a bigger carburetor.

The RPM intake will be OK, a Super Victor would do better.

Bump the compression to 11 or 12-1 since this is a "mostly track" engine. No sense in leaving HP sitting on the pages of a piston catalog.

Match the cam to the compression. Too much or too little and it will be a piss-poor engine. Don't forget to take the engine's extra 50 inches into account when buying the camshaft. It'll make power 500-700 rpm below what the manufacturer states. This is because they use the 350 as the basis for their recommendation.

Forget the HYD roller cams. Use a solid flat tappet or solid roller if you have the budget.

Use the best rotating assembly you and your buddy can afford. If you have to wait a little longer to save the money for it, so be it. You won't be sorry.

Finally, after you get the engine done and you have all the car's information in hand, call a reputable manufacturer for a decent converter to match it. Don't be cheap on this one either, cheap converters balloon and not only destroy themselves but your engine and transmission as well.


Larry
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2005, 06:49 PM
xntrik's Avatar
Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,131
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
You are going to be running a weight of 3700 pounds. Unless he is really skinny and you strip that body to nothing.

You will need all the guts you can get to get it moving. Most of the parts you are starting out with don't say "3700 pound drag car". Be realistic.

No time to skimp on parts because of price. If she blows, how much will it cost to do it over again?

"It always takes 4 times as long and costs 3 times as much"... Uncle Dan

Last edited by xntrik; 09-30-2005 at 06:57 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2005, 07:38 PM
NXS's Avatar
NXS NXS is offline
wind & fire = guides to power
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,534
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
If you run a single plane intake your carb will act just a bit larger b/c each cylinder is pulling thru 4 bbls instead of 2.
Below I used dart heads b/c I didn't have a flow file for the motowns. I also used stock rods and crank b/c the program doesn't take into account flex or breakage..
Note that the 550 roller needs a 5000 stall and the 292 needs a 4000 but will only lose 23 ft/lbs by using a 3000 stall where as the 550 roller will lose 70 ft/lbs by going to a 4000 stall.
Please keep in mind that this is a program that operates in a theoretical world where everything is perfect.


.
.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	550roller14to1compression.GIF
Views:	193
Size:	23.5 KB
ID:	7102   Click image for larger version

Name:	292comp12to1compreesion.GIF
Views:	198
Size:	23.3 KB
ID:	7103  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
combo help, camshaft rec? Roy_67_SS350 Engine 1 02-28-2004 06:34 AM
please Check my 383 combo..I need some help terror385 Engine 18 01-17-2004 06:47 PM
my 350 engine combo questions mcmike Engine 7 01-16-2004 11:00 AM
GOOD REAR END SETUP FOR A 68 CHEVY TRUCK erik350 Transmission - Rearend 1 05-14-2003 07:35 AM
where can i get a good paint integra_2222 Body - Exterior 3 07-29-2002 06:21 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.