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-   -   Good intake? (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/good-intake-231953.html)

KyleG 04-17-2013 10:13 PM

Good intake?
 
What would be a good intake to pick up some low end torque? Right now, the motor has a Torkii 2, edelbrock. Holley 750vs. 350, .030 over, flat tops, sadly do not no correct cr but probably 9:5 to 10:1, but could be higher.. Cam is a hydraulic flat tappet, 508 lift and 313 duration( lots of my low end power issue, i know.), not sure specs on the headers they are long tube, 2200 stall turbo 400, 4.11. Heads are 461 double hump heads, Sure the springs are not stock but do not know what they are, no porting or polishing. 1.5 arp rockers. Gm hei.

Right now, the rear tires will hardly spin without a little brake.. Does have good new tires though, 275-60-15 bfg radial ta.

Anyone know an AFFORDABLE intake i could swap to, that'd help a little.? Or other ideas to pick up some low end.. Already considering another cam.. Sounds good, but does not really come in till a little after 3000. After that it is a rocket ship. But till then. not much going on.


It is in a 70 c10. :thumbup:

vinniekq2 04-17-2013 10:37 PM

needs tuning,,,should broil the tires.Torker II is not my favourite but it works.

KyleG 04-17-2013 10:43 PM

Thats what I was thinking... I have the timing at the best place I have found for it.. With is 12-14 degrees initial. I sadly do not know what the total is, because the tab only reads to 16... The carb is new.. And stock jets. Plugs arent like super black or anything. They are just a little dark, but thought that may just be from idling a lot, with the duration. Maybe a little rich.. I was to say they are autolite, possibly 26's? But not promising on that.. It is the same motor I found water in my gas with.. Made that thread yesterday. As i said there, all brand new. Maybe 1000 miles tops. What would you think could be out of tune? Possibly, everything? hah

vinniekq2 04-17-2013 10:55 PM

I would start at 35 total timing and about 20 static.I dont really like big duration flat tappet hydraulic cams,the idle is rough and off idle response a lot slower than a solid cam.You just have to do the best you can with what you have.
The Vs carb should work ok,,,again not my favourite.

KyleG 04-17-2013 11:01 PM

Is static the same as initial? I am still new. And I was going for a lopey idle, was not really build 100% for top performance. But, a red flag popped up when the tires would not spin...
Are you suggesting I should have gone ms, rather than vs?

Here is how it runs.. Sorta old videos. I do not know what they were sat at in them..

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/...123_143327.jpg
http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8d0bb485.jpg

Motor was cold in the second one. Idle at about 800 or so. Warming up before leaving that morning

techinspector1 04-17-2013 11:24 PM

I agree with Vinnie, the motor needs ignition timing way more than it needs a different manifold. I think he's suggesting 20 degrees at the crank and I agree. You'll need to limit centrifugal advance to about 16, so that you have no more than about 36 total, all in by 2800 rpm's.

The problem that a lot of you fellows are running into is that the harmonic dampers are not telling you the truth, so what you think the timing is, it is not. Please read through this tutorial to understand how to verify Top Dead Center of the piston and match it with the TDC mark on your damper.....
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...op_dead_center

KyleG 04-17-2013 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techinspector1 (Post 1667752)
I agree with Vinnie, the motor needs ignition timing way more than it needs a different manifold. I think he's suggesting 20 degrees at the crank and I agree. You'll need to limit centrifugal advance to about 16, so that you have no more than about 36 total, all in by 2800 rpm's.

The problem that a lot of you fellows are running into is that the harmonic dampers are not telling you the truth, so what you think the timing is, it is not. Please read through this tutorial to understand how to verify Top Dead Center of the piston and match it with the TDC mark on your damper.....
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...op_dead_center

You suggested yesterday, that if I go to high I could ruin the rings. So While at the parts store tomorrow I will get some timing tape.. With the stock springs being in the gm hei, what is the average centrifugal advance on these, or does that vary? And what is absolute way to high total timing, if I end up going above 36? Or is 36 it? I talked to a guy at a shop about this probably a month ago, he did tell me to focus more on total than initial. But sadly forgot all of his tips, being I read WAY to much.

Also, another noob question, when finding the total, do I keep the vacuum advance unhooked and plugged?Any other tips, please tell me.. lol

Also, it was at tdc as of when it was dropped in. Again, it may have a 1000 miles tops.. Had a brand new balancer on it

Sorry for the lack of knowledge. But, name another kid my age learning all of this :thumbup:

vinniekq2 04-18-2013 06:26 AM

follow techs post,,,you will need a minimum of a coil upgrade for a stock HEI.
One change at a time.and yes,no vacuum when checking total advance

lg1969 04-18-2013 08:33 AM

Kyle, There is a misunderstanding when it comes to cam profile. When a person install a cam with a large overlap giving a choppy idle and thinking you are going produce power threw out the RPM range. They are going to be disappointed when you apply gas and the rear tires will not break loose. The reason is any cam with a choppy idle will loose low RPM torque and transferred upstairs. The less cubic inch or compression in a motor, the less torque it will produce. Next, the manifold you using is not producing low RPM torque especially when using a large CFM carburetor. Two things you need to change is a dual plane manifold with air gap and a smaller carburetor like 600 CFM VS carb. Last you need a higher stall converter. Your distributor need to be full advance at 38* at 2800 to 3000 RPM. The name of the game is torque. Hope this helps.

F-BIRD'88 04-18-2013 11:31 AM

This camshaft needs a 3500+++stall converter and big gears.
Lock out the centrifical advance curve in the distributor. This cam wants full advance at idle.

So much so that you do not now need a centrifugal advance curve.
The fix is to eliminate the centrifugal advance curve.
Locked out fixed timing will work best. 36deg BTDC .

36deg is 1/10th the way around the balancer from TDC.

A dual plane hi rise , like the Performer RPM will make a lot more low end torque than the torker II manifold.

Start by locking out the distributor. The low end power and response will be a whole lot better.
Be sure the starter motor support brace is installed.
It will be a whole different motor.

If you don't want to run a 3500++ stall and big gears get a much smaller camshaft.
And a dual plane intake manifold.

The HEI is easy to lock out.
http://www.hotrodders.com/gallery/da...limitlock2.jpg

KyleG 04-18-2013 12:15 PM

It has been a terrible day.. Went to town, no one had timing tape. Checked every parts store. Nope. Got home. stabilized the gas from water. Let it run... Played with the timing from 12-20 initial. Now no matter where i put it, the carb back fires.The lower I put it though, the slower and lagy it feels, higher, the faster it revs. But, still back fires under heavy load. The reason I have a 750, is because I had a 600. EVERYONE under the sun told me I was retarded for putting that small of a carb on it, take it back while I could to get a750. Even holley told me I needed a 750. Awesome right? I am about to just swap cams.. The reason it has the 2200 in the first place is because the guy we had order the cam( man who done the machine work on the motor during this time), we told him straight up, at the time we had a stock converter, we said order one that would run good with it, and he said no worries. here is a 2200, gave it to us for 50 bucks and ordered us a cam that was supposed to match up to it. Here we are now.. For my first motor of my own, this has sucked..


Another thing, when i got out a minute ago, took off the breather, sat there a minute thinking of what next, and heard something pulsing. Looked over in the carb, the front jet was sitting there still pulsing gas. The throttle was closed, wth now? I undone the line and plugged it, it had lots of pressure. It is a oem style pump, but yeah. Once I undone the line it had plenty of pressure. Plugged it off, it quit doing the pulsing crap.. Could this be the floats needing adjustment?


This sucks guys... The guy who done our machining is NOT a back yard machinic. Very skilled and has done it since dad was my age. I dont know if he just, well, I dont know..................... Extremely annoyed at the moment.


http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...21511932_n.jpg
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...17506596_n.jpg

Forgot to add, it does have a spacer. For clearance at the heater hose
How it sits..

KyleG 04-18-2013 12:16 PM

If i lock it out, wouldn't that ruin my fuel economy? It is driven on the street mostly

thinwhiteduke 04-18-2013 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleG (Post 1667900)
If i lock it out, wouldn't that ruin my fuel economy? It is driven on the street mostly


Locking it out will not ruin your fuel economy. Your stall converter is basically stock. Off course it's gonna be doggy down low, ya need 3500 stall min.
Your static compression prolly low for that cam too, depending what it actually is.



Duke

F-BIRD'88 04-18-2013 03:00 PM

If that is the cam that you actually got in this motor,then the locked timing will actually improve the fuel mileage.
You want to eliminate the centrifical advance but retain and still use the vacuum advance system
(ported vacuum) There is nothing wrong with the 750cfm carb. Get a fuel filter.
The cam is a bad choice for your truck.

You do not need a timing tape. as 36deg is 1/10th the circumfrence of the balancer, from TDC.
mark the balancer for 36deg BTDC.

Set the timng of the now locked distributor to 36deg BTDC with the va c advance disconnected from the carb.
Then connect the vac advance to the ported vac source, on the carb.
If/when it is hard to start when hot use a spark interupt switch.

If you get a different cam you will need a different setup.
The builder owes you a cam and lifter set that is suitable with a stock 2200stall.
Keep the .050" duration less than 218.

Change gthe cam not the torque converter. Its a truck not a race car.
Change the intake too.

gearheadslife 04-18-2013 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 (Post 1667935)

You do not need a timing tape. as 36deg is 1/10th the circumfrence of the balancer, from TDC.
mark the balancer for 36deg BTDC.

.

???? small block chevy has at least 3 different dia balancers..
what ones that math for? the 6 7 or 8 "


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