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Old 09-28-2006, 09:09 AM
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Granada Swap into 69 Torino

Ok, calling all ford guys. I got a great deal on a set of '75 granada 11" brakes, with spindle, rotors, claipers. Im converting my 69 drum/drum non-power to disc/drum non-power. I know that the barkes / spindles etc on the 69 Torino are the same as the early mustang, so the Granada swap should be very similiar. Or at least, I was told.

Im trying to gather all the correct parts I will need for the conversion, but there isn't much info on the torino / fairlanes. Im assuming I will need to order the same parts as I would for a mustang swap...75 granada tie rod ends, possibly upper ball joins, prop valve, and new rubber lines to calipers. I am also rebuilding the brakes with new calipers, slotted rotors, pads, and wheel bearings. My question is what else will I need? and are the tie rod ends the same as the mustang?? Also i was told to replace with the master cylinder with a manual disc/drum one. Do the make those for the torino?? Im worried im going o run into alot of unknown issues when atacking the job. Any help would be appreciated.

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Old 09-28-2006, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Also i was told to replace with the master cylinder with a manual disc/drum one. Do the make those for the torino??
You will need a Non-Power Disc/Drum M/C and a combination valve (METERING-PRESSURE DIFFERENTIAL-PROPORTIONING-REAR RESIDUAL). If the GRANADA was non-power, you could use that M/C and valve (may have to go to adjustable proportioning valve).

As far as tie-rod ends, you will most likely have to figure that out once torn down. Same for hoses. Unless someone here has down the same conversion successfully, it will be on a trial and error basis.

The GRANADA upgrade will change basic parts swapping. The 69 came with manual front discs but you already have the GRANADA setup. No big deal. It will go.

Your present wheels will not fit over the larger hub on the GRANADA rotors.
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Old 09-28-2006, 01:33 PM
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Ok good, so I will need to locate a correct MC. No big deal. I was planning to get an adjustable prop. valve since other parts from the granada are not available. I think your right on the trial by error as far as the tie rod length goes, we'll just have to see. Also, I have 16x8 torque thrust wheels so clearance should not be a problem.

The older guy warned me about using the large disc's without power assist. I still think that it will be an aprovement over the drums, but may require more foot effort...the conversion for the power assist is expensive, and locating a pedal assymbly is getting harder these day. Is is "unsafe" to drive 11" brakes without power assist?
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Old 09-29-2006, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksunshine

Ok good, so I will need to locate a correct MC. No big deal. I was planning to get an adjustable prop. valve since other parts from the granada are not available. I think your right on the trial by error as far as the tie rod length goes, we'll just have to see. Also, I have 16x8 torque thrust wheels so clearance should not be a problem.

The older guy warned me about using the large disc's without power assist. I still think that it will be an aprovement over the drums, but may require more foot effort...the conversion for the power assist is expensive, and locating a pedal assymbly is getting harder these day. Is is "unsafe" to drive 11" brakes without power assist?
hardly...

You have to realize during this time period, manual disc were widely used.

The difference (main) is the size of the M/C piston. Usually, a manual M/C will use a larger piston the exert more hydraulic force.

If going to an adjustable proportioning valve, I still would use a separate front metering valve, a pressure differential valve (for warning light) and make certain there is a 10lb residual valve in the rear circuit.
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Old 09-29-2006, 08:12 AM
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Sweet, you guys rock. Great info thanks
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Old 09-29-2006, 12:27 PM
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Residual valve...can someone help explain what this does.

Also is this something I can pick up through summit, jegs, O'reilly? Im having a hard time finding info on it.

Also, from the looks or it I will be re-plumbing all the lines...Brakes and hydro lines are a new thing for me thats ok, thats what I bought the car for.
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Old 09-29-2006, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksunshine

Residual valve...can someone help explain what this does.

Also is this something I can pick up through summit, jegs, O'reilly? Im having a hard time finding info on it.
Quote:
The residual valve holds ten pounds on a drum brake system when the brakes release to keep the spring on the shoes from collapsing the wheel cylinders.

Residual valves can be found in the end of the cylinder in ford fruit jar single master cylinders, where the brake lines screw into the master cylinder on some dual cylinders, one in the rear line only on front disc rear drum systems, or in the combination valve rear line only.

You can remove the residual valve from the master cylinder where the brake line screws in with a sheet metal screw. Screw it in and then pull. It will come right out.
All valving should be available through SUMMIT.
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Old 10-01-2006, 06:49 PM
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Granada swap parts list

Norman Master provides some good background and a parts list on "the granada swap" at http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~stanchfi/...ion-60-64.html

if you're looking for an inexpensive rear disc conversion for either 8-inch or 9-inch Ford, look here: http://www.steeltechsolutions.com/RE...PAGE_CODE.html

Let me know how it goes. I just picked up a cherry '64 Merc Monterey Marauder, and the disc brake swap is project #1 for me.
Walt
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Old 10-01-2006, 09:28 PM
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It looks like the guys have covered all of the bases pretty well.
On the Master cylinder.
Check some online sources such as www.partsamerica.com and www.napaonline.com both are good sources to find out if hard parts are available through regular (not the Collector car parts vendors) and give you a pretty good idea of what the price should be.
Ford is pretty good about using a limited number of chassis part numbers for a great number of years making it easy to do swaps.
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Old 10-01-2006, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ
...The difference (main) is the size of the M/C piston. Usually, a manual M/C will use a larger piston the exert more hydraulic force....
You got this one mixed up a bit. In order to create more line pressure (required for disc brakes) you will need a smaller bore master cylinder then a power setup.

Somewhere just under 1" should do well for manual brakes.
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Old 10-02-2006, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triaged

You got this one mixed up a bit. In order to create more line pressure (required for disc brakes) you will need a smaller bore master cylinder then a power setup.

Somewhere just under 1" should do well for manual brakes.
...sheesh...
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Old 10-02-2006, 07:51 AM
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The guys at Oreilly we're able to pick out a non-power DISK/DRUM MC so hopefully its the right one. These sources are great guys, thanks. Without pulling the MC apart how can you tell bore size?

Anyway im sending the spindles off to get a nice cleaning today, and should get them powder coated tomorrow.

Still though I dont think anyone explained to me what the risidual does.
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Old 10-02-2006, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksunshine
Without pulling the MC apart how can you tell bore size?...Still though I dont think anyone explained to me what the residual does.
There should be enough of the bore visible from the back to measure. If not try looking up what you got on www.napaonline.com as they list a bunch of good info there (sometimes even caliper bore diameter which is a very hard one to find).

A residual pressure valve keeps its rated pressure (normally 2 or 10psi) on the opposite side of it from the master cylinder. In the case of disc/drum you will need a 10psi valve on the line for the back brakes. This will help hold some pressure against the drum brake return springs that are pulling the shoes away from the drum. As you apply force on the peddle the line pressure ahead of the valve will increase until it reaches 10psi and then will allow pressure to go down the line to the drums.

If a residual pressure valve is used alone on a disc/drum braking system the rear brakes will do no work until the front brakes are over 10psi. This isn't too bad - it will just make the front pads wear out a bit quicker. The factory installs a hold off valve (normally inside the combination valve with the proportioning valve, idiot light switch, and residual pressure valve) in the front brakes so that no braking is done until the rear line pressure required to overcome the return springs is reached.
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Old 10-02-2006, 10:19 AM
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Thats exactly the info I need. This place is like the instant google for car guys. I'll check out napa. Thanks for the great info.

From what i've read the swap will be mostly indentical to the mustang swap...but we'll see,
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Old 10-02-2006, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triaged

A residual pressure valve keeps its rated pressure (normally 2 or 10psi) on the opposite side of it from the master cylinder.

In the case of disc/drum you will need a 10psi valve on the line for the back brakes. This will help hold some pressure against the drum brake return springs that are pulling the shoes away from the drum. As you apply force on the peddle the line pressure ahead of the valve will increase until it reaches 10psi and then will allow pressure to go down the line to the drums.

If a residual pressure valve is used alone on a disc/drum braking system the rear brakes will do no work until the front brakes are over 10psi. This isn't too bad - it will just make the front pads wear out a bit quicker. The factory installs a hold off valve (normally inside the combination valve with the proportioning valve, idiot light switch, and residual pressure valve) in the front brakes so that no braking is done until the rear line pressure required to overcome the return springs is reached.


Now hold on just a moment. There are two ratings of RESIDUAL VALVES, one two lbs. and the other 10 lbs. They both have a different task (and there are other uses but not important here).

The 2lb. residual valve is used in disc/drum or disc/disc where the M/C is installed under the fluid level of the front caliper, its' purpose to keep the brake fluid from siphoning back into the master cylinder (via gravitational pull).

The 10lb. residual valve is used in a disc/drum application to;
  • [1] To maintain a small hydraulic pressure on the rear wheel cylinders to keep the brake shoes closer to the drum (prevents full retraction) to energize the rear shoes more quickly upon application (as drum brakes energize more slowly than disc), and

    [2] To not allow the brake shoes to slam against the wheel cylinder pistons upon release (acts as a shock absorber), possibly allowing air to be drawn into the wheel cylinders.

The rear cylinders have a constant 10lb. line pressure against them (after initial application) . The front metering valve limits hydraulic pressure to the front discs until the rear brakes have become energized. This rating will be far above the 10lb. residual valve.

Most modern M/C's will have a 10lb. residual valve installed either in the rear brake port (drum brakes), or possibly the rear port of the proportioning valve, to keep the rear shoes slightly away from the stops.

It is also not an idiot light, but a system warning lamp to alert the driver that there is a hydraulic failure in the system.

The difference(s) in M/C bore size not only determine pressue/volume delivered, but also to required driver pedal pressure exerted.
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