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-   -   To grind or not to grind? Roller Rocker Q: (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/grind-not-grind-roller-rocker-q-122328.html)

dirtydave 08-16-2007 03:53 PM

To grind or not to grind? Roller Rocker Q:
 
After searching the threads I still can't find the general consensus as to whether or not grinding should be done on the roller rockers in order to clear the valve springs.

My springs have a 1.560" diameter at a 2.000" installed height. I have a set of Comp Pro Magnum Roller Rockers 1.6 on a 7/16" stud. All of this is going on in my Sportsman II heads.

Here are some pics of what I'm dealing with. Some rockers won't even slide down the studs and those that will can't even get contact between the valve tip and the roller. (i've attached pics of both situations).

So do I take material off the rockers to clear this up? (I'm worried about strength reduction with this route of course) Or do any of you have a similar setup where a different type of rocker clears the wider springs?
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/IMG_0364.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/IMG_0366.jpg
Thank you for your input.

FYI: I don't have pushrods yet since I can't find any height that the rockers don't hit yet. And I do need the big valve spring to be able to handle my solid roller cam.

hotrodf1 08-16-2007 04:09 PM

I had this problem to a much lesser degree with my "no-name" rockers that I had before, but I wouldn't have thought the Comp rockers would be a problem.

So, even if you leave the pushrod end of the rocker up higher it still hits the retainer? It looks like you have more interference, and would end up grinding away a good chunk of material. I don't know what the effect would be, but I would be scared to do it too.

Not that this is good news, but I think the PVS (Miller Engineering) rockers that I just bought are clearanced for 1.55 springs. If you look on the website you can see how the underside is clearanced.

FYI: Competition Products has them priced really nice at $159 a set for small block and only $139 for big block. And they are nice, seem to be nice quality! Lifetime warranty on them as well!

Can see them here: http://www.mid-lift.com/PVS-PA.htm

If you click home at the top, then click on the STUD-BRIDGE will see the "STUD - BRIDGE" which is a wicked stud girdle. Talk about cinching everything up tight. It's a different design.

I like that site, really pretty interesting concepts.

RPM 08-16-2007 04:16 PM

I have run into that many times. I put the rockers in a mill and used an end mill to cut into that area. Never had a failure. Just don't cut anymore that you have to.

sam-missle 08-16-2007 04:28 PM

to grind or not
 
hi dirty dave, nice pics, only problem is your rockers will never be in the position you have them in in the pics. it looks like once you set the rockers in the proper position minimal clearancing will be needed. it is o.k. to grind for clearance. sam-missle

DeputyDawg134 08-16-2007 04:33 PM

grinding
 
I wouldn't grind them, but you have an option that should come out cheaper than a new set of rockers. Try the new beehive springs from comp cams (I think thats who makes them) they have a narrow top and widen at the bottom to the standard width. They have gotten a lot of good reviews as well. Just my .02 :cool:

Jmark 08-16-2007 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sam-missle
hi dirty dave, nice pics, only problem is your rockers will never be in the position you have them in in the pics. it looks like once you set the rockers in the proper position minimal clearancing will be needed. it is o.k. to grind for clearance. sam-missle


Good call! If you raise the rockers up to about their "normal" position, the interference may end up a non-issue. A stock pushrod under it will get you close to finding out if you need to clearance the rockers or not.

hotrodf1 08-16-2007 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmark
Good call! If you raise the rockers up to about their "normal" position, the interference may end up a non-issue. A stock pushrod under it will get you close to finding out if you need to clearance the rockers or not.


I think he said he couldn't even get some of the rockers onto the stud because the interference prevented it. He either has to clearance the rockers or get different rockers I believe.

Jmark 08-16-2007 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotrodf1
I think he said he couldn't even get some of the rockers onto the stud because the interference prevented it. He either has to clearance the rockers or get different rockers I believe.


Yep, you are correct. I missed that part. Ok, maybe I need to go edit my post? LOL

Mark

techinspector1 08-17-2007 12:38 AM

OK, I'll add my take on it. I figure that even Comp Pro Magnums don't have superfluous material in them that can be ground away. In the super-competitive environment of speed parts, it is doubtful that the engineers would have designed them with any more material than was absolutely necessary to do the job. Call Comp and find out if there is some other rocker that you don't know about that can be used in this application. If not, ask about using the beehives like the Deputy mentioned.

1BAD80 08-17-2007 06:43 AM

How doe's the gap look with push-rods installed.
The rockers do not go down that far.
A longer push-rod does help most that hit.
Show some pictures with the rods installed, I dought there will be a problem.

CNC BLOCKS NE 08-17-2007 09:32 AM

We use a lot of Crower rockers which have more clearance and some times using a lash caps may even help with a retainer to rocker issues.

dirtydave 08-17-2007 11:03 AM

Thank you all for your input so far! You definitely got my gears turning in the old noggin. To answer some of your questions:

I don't have any pushrods yet for this engine since I needed to install the rockers in order to see what length rod will be required for proper geometry. (i use a set of the adjustable pushrods to determine this)

When I installed the rockers, some would not even slide down the stud at all because of the interference (as hotrodf1 pointed out and as you can see in my first picture) I understand that the position of this rocker is all messed up but it's as far as it goes on. The rockers that could "squeeze" past the valve springs can't touch the roller to the valve tip, no matter what height pushrod is. The closest they could come is shown on my second picture.

Now as far as grinding the rockers goes, I understand that many people have done it before, but as much money that's in this engine, I would hate to risk a broken rocker and who knows what other parts if that metal winds up where it shouldn't be. Plus my spring force is pretty stiff in order to control my solid roller cam with .680 lift seen at the valve (minus lash of course) which I would think is another factor towards a premature rocker failure.

So I looked around for other rockers that would clear my springs without having to go to a shaft mounted rocker. Harland Sharp has a heavy duty aluminum set that say they clear springs up to 1.630" as well as Crane's Gold Race Rockers. I would like to go to a stainless steel rocker but the only one I found (by Crower, thanks CNC BLOCKS N/E) were around $500 for the set! I'm sure they are worth it though.

If you guys have any info of which of these I should stay away from, let me know. I'll keep you all posted which ones I get and if they clear. For future reference, the Comp Pro Magnums won't clear the bigger springs (1.560").

Thanks
Dirtydave

BBCMudbogger 08-17-2007 01:34 PM

Isnt 2" installed height kinda high? I am thinking about 1.8"?

dirtydave 08-17-2007 08:41 PM

You're right Mudbogger. 2" is high but required for my high lift, roller cam setup. My cam grinder recommended 240# on the seat from a spring. In order to get that force and to be out of coil bind range with my lift setup, I had to go to a taller install height. (which is helping cause this problem because the taller the valve gets the closer it is to the rocker arm stud since they aren't at the same angle)

383silverado 08-18-2007 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1BAD80
How doe's the gap look with push-rods installed.
The rockers do not go down that far.
A longer push-rod does help most that hit.
Show some pictures with the rods installed, I dought there will be a problem.


have you tried installing a push rod like 1bad80 suggested ?


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