[bullheimer]

it's getting alot of attention on another site, esp since Black Tie Motors in Jersey is doing this and selling them as GTO's.

basically this means that a gto vin tag by itself w/o a car is worth $15K!! so i ask hotrodders this:

i have a stock rotted into dust gto. i take the body off a tempest and pop rivet the tag onto it. do i have a gto or not. when does a tempest, if ever, become a gto?? is it always a clone even if i put the engine, trans etc in? how bout i add the frame. the vin is stamped into the top rear of one frame rail. debate?

[poncho62]

It's a question that really has no answer in my mind..................you can replace ever part of a car one by one...............Is it still that original car?..Who knows?

I would say in your case, it's still a "clone", but who really cares. There is too much emphasis on "originality" in my mind.

An "original" car in my mind is one that has never been altered in any way. Very few owners can say that about their cars.

[Biggarmike]

It's clearly a clone, by definition. The only way to absolutely verify a GTO, Z28, R/T, Shelby, or whatever is with the full VIN verification and a copy of the build sheet from the manufacturer.
FWIW, it only matters for collectors who are buying cars as an investment. With drivers, it doesn't really matter.

[Deuce]

Let's look at this from the other side..........


Would you pay as much money $$$ for a Tempest with a GTO vin ...if you knew it. Of course not. It's NOT a clone..........it's a fraud. And you can be used for it.

A fellow I know took a plain Jane 69 Camaro and put a bunch of Z28 pieces on it. It looked, sounded and drove like a real Z28. It would ( and did ) fool a lot of Camaro folks. He was at a show and a " Gold Chainer" had to own it. He told the guy it was not a real Z28. The guy offered BIG money anyway. Stupid money.

The fellow sold the Camaro but got the new owner to sign a paper stating that he knew the car was NOT a GM real Z28.

The "Gold Chainer" sells the Camaro (for a profit) as a real Z a few years later..

2 or 3 buyers later (and a few more years)..........the current owner sues the fellow for making a FAKE Z28. He had the paper, went to trial and the jury found for him................but it still cost him about 1/2 of the money he got for the 69.

[302 Z28]

Duece is right on. Any person considering the buy of a sixties muscle car better know how to validate authenticity. I was just last weekend at the Longhorn rod show in Spring Texas. There were several 69 Z/28's there, that looked very good. Upon close inspection none had the correct engine code, or VIN numbers.

Sharing a similar experience like Duece mentioned. I have an acquaintance who's dad built a 69 Yenko Camaro. It was accurate to every detail, this guy is very anal about authenticity, but it was a clone (counterfeit). He never tried to pass it off as an original however. He advertised the car for sale on a leading Camaro website as a "Yenko copy". Sold it for a tidy sum, even stating on the sales receipt that is was not authentic. That person passed it off to another as an original for a very large amount. You can guess what happened. My buddies dad was threatened with a lawsuit, but all it took was a letter from his lawyer with a copy of the original receipt of sale to get the third owner to back off the suit threat of first owner.

FYI, I think there are now more 69 Z/28's in circulation that when in 69, sooo be very wary.

Vince

[Biggarmike]

That's still the running joke here while walking through the aisles of "red Camaros" "gee.... Chevy only made 22 67 RS Camaros with the Z28 option package, all 41 of them are here!.... See the emblem on the front fender?"

I love looking at the Camaro clones, some are beautifully done, some are so badly done you almost feel bad for the guy who is proudly showing it off.

[Deuce]

Originally posted by Deuce





It's NOT a clone..........it's a fraud. And you can be used for it.

My dyslexia must have kicked it. I meant " and you can be sued for it "


I had the right 4 letters...............just in the wrong order.