Great work Jon. That's some of the best investigative worked I've seen. I love seeing someone using underhanded tactics like that go down in a ball of flames.

more vendors to add to the "DO NOT BUY FROM" list.

Here's my opinion. You're a ******.

A) Fun stuff, thanx for the info Jon.

B) Will be very easy to nuke these idiots for our informed and dedicated moderators. From what I have read of your links, she would have been nuked for any one of her posts, even if they were stand-alone single posts. 100% pure advertising.

C) Have you talked w/ other web site operators? Are you guys joining forces against these idiots?

With all due respect, and I say this having never seen the posts in question - which I presume is a product of dedicated and effective efforts by the moderating team - as a long-time occasional poster here whose engineering career, until a recent switch to the medical industry, has been in the automotive industry, I have to say I'm a little bit bothered with bashing on American automakers and suppliers.

Tenneco, at least in terms of volume of business (although the profit margins are higher in aftermarket, so I'm not sure which is the bigger piece of pie dollar-wise), is bigger as an automotive OEM tier 1 supplier, and I don't begrudge that they may have a part in the wrongdoing here. But I think it does a dis-service to an already hurting industry that is significant to the American economy, and even more so to the even more hurting economy of Michigan where I'm from, to put them as the headline of what more directly is the actions of an outside marketting firm.

A struggling industry doing something immoral is still an industry doing something immoral.

willys36 -- yes, I've sent personalized, non-spam, one-by-one emails to all the admins involved. I have a small group that I'm keeping updated about the details. I've seen some post volume about this, and I imagine it will increase significantly now that we've publicized it with another round. Here's an example of PowerTV being called out on GoDragRacing.com: http://forums.godragracing.com/viewtopic.php?t=57729 .

Slipangle -- you'll note that the word "Tenneco" was not even mentioned publicly until they were given a chance to defend themselves privately, and to break their ties with the marketing firm. All they had to say was: "We didn't know this was happening, and when we found out, we dropped PowerTV". They wouldn't do that, instead trying to hide behind their lawyers, whose emails you can read here: http://spankmymarketer.com/tenneco.html .

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thanx jon, for the hu,these people think if you see or hear it;it has to be true,we are not all idiots,the only way to effect these people is to hit them where it hurts;in the wallet. maybe then they'll pay attention to their base,us! keep it up guys.

The ability of viewers of TV to distinguish between program and advertising is becoming more difficult as advertisers produce programs where content and intent become more blurred.

Here in the hills of Colorado we have no cable or broadcast TV. Two years ago I canceled my Dish Network subscription because of the seemingly non-stop run of commercials and the lack of intelligent programing. Programs that cost little or (relatively) nothing to produce, have no entertainment value.

If I recall, Shade Tree Mechanic eventually turned into nothing but a commercial. Yuck! I don't miss TV in the least and I have XM Radio as commercial radio wasn't any better.

The fact TV not only continues to exist, but expands and diversifies mystifies me to a degree until I remember the first rule of retailing and politics; The Masses Are *****. And, Freedom of the Press is Guaranteed to Those Who Own One.

Forums, especially this one, champion truth and knowledge though inter-activity, Repeat; Interactivity. You don't get that from CNN.

We live in a society where the average moron can't even use a turn signal. So, it's not surprising some would not be able to distinguish unethical behavior and even attempt to defend it. I wonder if they're to be thought of as the Broom-Tuners of retail?

It's a while since I have read a post as intelligent as this one, perhaps the USA will survive after all.

Except for reading an update occasionally, I haven't really been following this thread particularly well. Since my TV amounts to watching the news/weather in the morning and evening "competing" on Jeopardy plus taping NA$CAR racing so I don't have to be bombarded with commercials when I watch it later, it really does not affect me too much. I cannot begin to watch 39 - 42 minutes of a one hour program that has the balance of the time devoted to mindless commercials. I would drop cable if I could. I can't even watch a football game on TV and I'm a Patriots fan - and usually walk away after a very few minutes because of the incessant drone-on commercialism breaks

I have my favorite car parts and since I don't think I have ever watched Power TV, doubt very much if they could sway me into purchasing one of their products. If it's on their list of "sponsors" and is one of my faves, I'm going to buy it anyhow -

But with that said, Jon, please continue working to get this exposed, work with the other forums and your counterparts to get this blatant commercialism under control on the internet auto forums. We have a great bunch of folks here that are very knowledgeable and don't need this crass and blatantly arrogant kind of "advertising". If they want to advertise, let 'em start their own forum - but not here.

Dave

Here's a link to a thread on www.turbobuick.com

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/tu...3-new-site.html


Now it Powerjon and powermelissa...

Good find! I have a feeling we'll be seeing more and more of those kinds of threads.

To clarify -- I never sued SEMA, tried to sue SEMA, or tried to take any legal action against SEMA. I don't know where they came up with that one, but it's kinda funny . Maybe they're confusing it with when Discovery Communications (who airs Overhaulin') tried to sue me. More details here: Media Giant Bullies Internet Critic, here: Discovery Upset About Parody Spanking, and in a cached article here: Men In Thongs the Center of Copyright, Free Speech Issue.

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Body and exterior tips || Freeing a stuck engine || Soda blasting || Narrowing a rearend || John Deere Blitz Black paint || How to find cheap parts || Hotrodding glossary || Transmission identification || Rust || Cheapo paint job || How to identify a Ford V8 || How to title a hot rod...and hundreds more articles.

Today 09:47 AM
mosstrooper Quote:



It's a while since I have read a post as intelligent as this one, perhaps the USA will survive after all.



so there ARE more of us out there.....WHEW!
I thought ALL the sheeple were headed for the slaughter house.

Somebody on our forum linked us to this discussion with "concerns".

If I can speak without getting attacked for providing some insight, I will be happy to do so...

FWIW, I really don't see your "findings" as anything really shocking, because the fact is, the people from PowerTV made no secret whatsoever as to what this whole concept was about from the get-go.

It started out with them going around to some of the larger automotive forums (Ours has over 100,000 members) and told us that they planned to offer a "video sharing system" where websites like ours could have our own "channel" where our members could upload as many videos as they wanted to and we could control the content of same. And yes, the "catch" being that there would obviously be advertising involved in this, however, unlike Youtube or other video sharing websites, the advertising would be automotive-related, as this is the targeted audience.

So with that said, I have a couple points to make, if I may?

Anyone with any background in IT knows that video files use a tremendous amount of bandwidth, and bandwidth costs money. If you tried to run your own "video sharing website" or allow your members to upload as many videos of them racing or at car shows or events and whatnot, you would soon find your bill to your host or network provider would skyrocket. So the trade-off was pretty clear here- They furnish the server resources, (bandwidth and web space) and in turn, they can "spam" your website. Yup. Exactly.

People can say "well I can go to Youtube and upload all the videos I want". Sure you can. And you are subjected to endless amounts of obtrusive advertising. Which is FINE, because they would go broke simply providing "free" video support with no advertising.

What PowerTV does is allow your webmaster(s) to customize your video channel to fit the format of your website and allow your membership to upload videos. It is really pretty simple. They told us this from day one! In fact, there were several online communities that were offered the chance to "beta test" this concept almost a full year before it went "live". We knew it was going to be all over the web, we never had some idea that these people were trying to "trick us" into thinking that we were getting some sweet deal that nobody else was getting.

I guess I fail to see what you have "uncovered" here? How were they "busted" when they TOLD us all about these things before we even got started with it??

In all candor, yes, some of the incessant advertising and postings (which are done by a "bot" in many cases per the agreement) can be very obtrusive and annoying. I guess it is up to the website operators to decide if they want to keep taking part in it or not.

One thing I can say for sure, Melissa is very real. She is not a "creation" she is a live, breathing human being. She's doing a job she was hired to do. I have conversed with her on several occasions.

More candor-
The spam advertising does drive some of us crazy. I also operate a much smaller Midwest-based Mustang-themed website and we were using the PowerTV setup there also, but yes, to be honest, it bothered some of our members, so we took the time to setup our own "Youtube" style system. We had to purchase the software, configure it all, and make it integrate into our website design. It's very cool. No spam ads other than our own advertisers who pay to support our club's website. But it also is very expensive to maintain!

So I guess the trade-off is, do we keep paying the extra server expenses and not subject our members to the spam they see in the PowerTV system or do we stop paying the extra fees and draw on our webserver and use the PowerTV system for video sharing? For 2008 we keep using our own system.

There is no way possible with 100,00 members on Corral.net that we could hope to provide anything close to what we get from PowerTV, so we will keep using it. Some people don't like that, which is perfectly ok. Because nobody forces them to click that section of our website and see that stuff. We have a dedicated forum for the PowerTv spam, which is what we agreed to. They have their "video bot" that automatically posts the same thing in our PowerTV section as it does on all the other sites in the network. That is not a "secret" to anyone who's taking part in the program.

Anyway, I don't intend to start a war or upset the investigative reporter here, I just wanted to present another side to this "dis-cussion"

Happy New Year and peace be with you.