Let's try to keep politics and personal issues out of this, so that we can focus on the facts.

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This is spreading around. Here's an updated list of links to discussions about this on other automotive forums:

http://www.nsra.org.uk/newforum/showthread.php?t=3122
http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/for...ead.php?t=92514
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/sho...d.php?t=1898817
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48038
http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=4169482
http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1020761
http://www.webrodder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7514
http://forums.luvtruck.com/viewtopic.php?t=15071
http://forums.godragracing.com/viewtopic.php?t=57729
http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/span...m-t1670808.html
http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/...mtext2=&morder=
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads...765&an=0&page=6
http://www.m-100.cc/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3155
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/s...7-new-site.html
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/tu...3-new-site.html

And, there's also still the Corral.net discussion: http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=980191 . I think, at very least, it's safe to say that the Corral.net members are now "undecided" on this issue. I'll be watching that one to see if James's strategy includes any more similar "doctor-murderer" comments .

And, to be fair, I did find one discussion that's still (mostly) in favor of PowerTV: http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=41052 .

It also got brought up again on the HAMB, in a thread about copyright. This time, the thread wasn't deleted:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...t=231637&page=3

There are several more sites that are discussing this in private threads, only accessible to members. I only know about it because I can see the referrals to SpankMyMarketer.com in the website referral logs.

Well Put!

I am still working on getting the bugs out of the Black hole ~White hole theory & the Time Space continuum.

Thing is; most of Y'all will never know I had been there .

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread. . . .

Keep up the Good Fight Jon.



R

__________________
"SlowRide66"

"Illegitimis non carborundum"
Don't let the bastards grind you down!

Here's another forum discussing this: http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38221 .

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And yet another: http://www.gmv8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2458 .

I made a post on the Corvette forum and look here what a moderator posted (page 4):

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/sho...#post1563448517

Has everyone seen James reply about Jon on Corral?
http://corral.net/forums/showpost.p...05&postcount=28

Jon, I am with you on this.

Thanks roger1.

James's "side of the story" is full of spin and outright lies. Rather than discuss the facts of the situation (that they violated the Terms of Service of numerous sites, spammed their forums, deceived people, and broke the law), he's attempting to attack me personally. I think it's an ill-fated strategy that demonstrates how desperate he is -- trying to convince forum members that I'm "crazy".

My reply to his post is in this thread, in this post.

It looks like I'll also have to add a page to SpankMyMarketer.com to help people see through James's tactics.

He says he's not receiving any monies from the companies in question.
My question is: How does he earn a living? Is he making these videos for the love of it?
Nobody I know that's in business does stuff for nothing.

Of course the companies are paying him. They've even confirmed it when I communicated with them. Obviously, he's not posting videos on all those forums out of the goodness of his heart. You can see his marketing and production prices on his advertising page.

His tactic is to say that "the companies never paid us to post videos".

The fact is that the companies pay them to market and promote the videos. Part of that marketing and promotion involves spamming forums by posting the videos.

Technically, their contract probably doesn't say: "We're paying you to spam forums by posting videos". So, James can legally say: "The companies never paid us to post videos".

He repeats this sentence frequently, embellishing it with phrases such as "We never got one cent for posting videos", "Not once, not ever", "Never!!".

It's just word tricks. He's underestimating our intelligence, which I think is a huge mistake.

Lets keep the discussion going.

James violated this website's rules (and others with no, or exclusive, advertising rules). In the grand scheme of things, not that big of a deal. It's the jaywalking of the internet. Is it really cost effective to try to pursue legal action when you've got a ban option at your fingertips to take care of users that make posts that are not wanted? Which from what I can tell, is exactly what every other site that feels the same way did.

Doesn't the responsibility ultimately fall on this site's administration to make and enforce the rules for this site? If Greg were to break the copy/paste rule again, would you make a spoof site for The Corral, or GLD? After all, it's a violation of your TOS. If I were to break the rules here, would you go after MSDR? I'm sorry, but after reading this thread and others on the links you've posted, I just don't see the logic in your crusade against PowerTV. It simply shouldn't be this big of a deal.

Negative advertising is still advertising. You're bringing the PowerTV brand to a pretty broad audience yourself (which in my opinion, goes against your desired outcome for his business). Many people on multiple forums have posted that they'd never even heard of James or PowerTV before your ad campaign.

You're not the one doing all the "spamming" on the various forums with the link to this thread, but in the same fashon, James isn't the only one making PowerTV posts on forums. Is that the loophole around various site's TOS agreements? Should PowerTV take a page from your book and get existing forum users to post links? Granted that was a bit of sarcasm, but that's really how ridiculous this whole issue has gotten.

Wake up people. Advertising is EVERYWHERE. Use your brains, and make your own decisions. Don't just jump on a bandwagon because it's there. Nothing in life is free, someone has to foot the bill.

Been a member for a week, no info in your profile and you make that post?
Pretty darn fishy.

booger@MSDR -- to clarify (once again), we're not pursuing legal "action" against anyone.

If anyone repeatedly broke the rules, we would contact them privately, as we did with PowerTV, and the involved companies.

Banning them on this forum doesn't do a thing to help the hundreds of other forums that were affected. I think that it's our duty to let our fellow forums know what's going on, although I understand if other people don't agree. Judging from the posts on the 20 or so forums that this has made it to, it seems like most people agree with us, and are thankful for the heads up.

Spam is commercial. People posting about this on other forums is not spam, in any definition of the term. I haven't asked one person to post about this, and they're certainly not getting any commercial gain from it. People think it's important to spread the word, and they're doing so.

The crux of this matter is that if we don't stick up for what we believe in, then forums will become the next "hot rod TV".

I don't understand for one second how (it seems to me) so many people seem to be giving "powermelissa" the benefit of the doubt. REALLY, do some people really think she didn't know what she was doing from the start of all this? Not only her posts all over the net, but her company "PowerTV" knew exactly what was going on, I guess they thought nobody would really care, or "they'll get over it" I for one am glad Jon DID care, and didn't just roll over.

They put a pretty face we've all seen posting all over (you think that could grab attention?) forums. I've read this through, and chased links to see what others think, and this whole group of posts seems to have a real advocate for "powertv", wording it just right to seem in the middle, but "corral dude" really seems to be a fan of the powertv gang. He had me swaying back and forth until I read he has a website with powertv's stuff, and appologized if he offended the "powertv" group if he offended them. To me his opinion is void at best, he obviously agreed to have them be a part of his site, agrees with their "Marketing Solutions"!!! What a laugh. Saying "Have I made all sides angry yet? if so, then mission accomplished." doesn't cover it for me, sorry.

There all I stepped out of the shadows and said my bit "Have I made all sides angry yet? if so, then mission accomplished." did that get you too?



bonuts

"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry...!"

I'm not "on trial" here, nor am I under any obligation to "cover it" for you. Whatever your formulated opinions are, they are yours, so however you end up "feeling" is of no significant meaning to me personally. However, for the sake of discussion...

As for what I have posted, I believe anyone with a even a tiny bit of functional intellect could reasonably conclude, probably from my first posting in this discussion, that I have a somewhat biased viewpoint, and I don't believe I have made any effort whatsoever to hide that fact. Members of our own forum have accused me of "carrying the water" for PowerTV. Yea, ok? And?

If all I cared to do was be a shill for James or PTV, I would not have brought up the situation with Mustang Central. Normally, when it's your "job" to go around putting out fires for someone, it would not be in your best interest nor those of the persons you are shilling for, to point out something like that, especially when, in the context of Jon's reporting, he didn't mention that website. It was bad situation. PTV kept posting the videos. MC kept saying STOP. It made them very angry. Not good.

And, in case you are unable to make the "connection"- consider- By the very act of having PowerTV on both The Corral as well as GLD and my own club website, along with the stated fact that I have taken part in the beta-testing of the product before it was offered to the public, (facts which which I have not only never tried to hide from anyone but actually have made quite clear!) that would probably serve to indicate that I accept their terms and conditions. Do you stand out in bright sunshine and proclaim that this sun thing is bright, shiny and warm? Do you stand out in a torrential downpour and proclaim that it's raining? All the while feeling like you have made some sort of profound discovery?

Apparently, what I have posted and how I feel personally have come thru quite properly, based upon your own posted opinions. I AM in "the middle" because I like the product and the concept, but I am dismayed by the poor handing of situation, especially in cases where people like Jon asked more than once for it to stop, and that request was ignored. Never should have happened.

The other aspects of the discussion are going to revolve around an individual's views on many different, independent points.

It's pretty easy to slap John on the back and agree.

Anybody can do that.

It's pretty easy to slam Jon and not agree with his crusade.

Anybody can do that.

At the very least, I have brought some insight to this discussion. Have you?
The internet is full of sheep that jump on a bandwagon and join in the bashing.

BAAAAAAAAA! BAAAAAAA!! Are you a black sheep or a white one?

Opps! I might have violated the TOS with that last line, please strike it from the discussion...


Just remember, when you watch CNN or Fox News Channel, you might wish to take some of the rhetoric with a grain of salt based upon traditional leanings to the left or the right by these providers of public information. They might have an angle. Be wise, consider those angles when you form an opinion.

Get it?

Fishy??? No info??? Are you that closed minded, intent on dismissing any opinion that doesn't agree with your bandwagon?

The only thing my profile here doesn't have that yours does is my b-day, interests, and occupation. Whoopty-doooo. None of that is relevant to this discussion. Click on my website link provided in my profile if you'd like to learn more about me, or check up on me, or even find out for sure that I haven't been posting from NC hahahaha.

If you'd have bothered to search my extensive number of posts here, you'd see that I made an intro post. Why would I do that if I actually had something to hide? I'm not the boogey man, I'm not out to get you or anyone else, so quit being so paranoid. Take your tinfoil hat off, put down the torch and pitchfork and look at this topic from the big picture.

Then what's the point? At what point does it stop?



Then what is the next step if they make another mistake and break the rules again? What do you do when you stop giving someone chances to adhere to the rules?



You may believe it's your duty, but it's not your responsibility. To me, the duty was done when you sent your email (Even if it was never received). Anything past that means you're on the offensive, not simply "warning" other forums about possible spam.



People join a bandwagon. In this case, just like in the media, your "marketing bust" is heavily biased toward your viewpoint and does not represent the full truth of the matter. I'd expect a report from James would be biased toward PowerTV. That means the truth is in the middle, and each one of us should use our brains to figure out just what it is.



You're responsible for making this forum whatever you want it to be. Period. Buy all the domain names you want, host all the websites you want. Just don't lose sight of what you have control over. Don't turn into a fanatic pushing an agenda, and focus on making the hotrod community a better community.