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Hard or easy to take off an oil Pan? 1966 Rambler Classic

4K views 22 replies 8 participants last post by  thelasthallow 
#1 · (Edited)
Ok well as mentioned in my other post i broke a piece of the distributor off and it is now in the oil pan. and also i don't know much about cars because im a computer guy.

So in the other post somone says why not just take the oil pan off instead of pulling the whole engine out. so i started takeing off some bolts but i am skeptic there will be enough room beaus there is about an inch or so between the oil pan and the bottom thing thats under the engine.

also on the right hand side (looking from the back of the car) there is a bolt inbetween the oil pan and an engin mount and i dont bileve i would have enough room to get in there to get it off. plus i am a little weary of getting under the car when its up in the air. yeah im afraid is gonna fall on me...

here are a few pics.

Fron of car http://i30.tinypic.com/bycr7.jpg
Vehicle stand holding up car http://i32.tinypic.com/erhav8.jpg EDIT i have 2 stands 1 on each side.
Engine http://i28.tinypic.com/2exlmvp.jpg

Now this is where the bolt is between the engine mount and the oil pan. i know the pic is kinda dark but you can kinda see it. http://i29.tinypic.com/2w5k6ll.jpg


i want to get this car running and drivable all by myself but my knowledge is limited even if i am reading a Chilton or Motors book.

Oh yeah my cousin loaned me an old motors book and it dose seem to have a little more info in it than a Chilton book. Guess motors books are better?
 
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#2 ·
I am not really sure on that car. If it will not come off you might be able to unbolt the engine front the mounts and lift it a couple inches to gain the extra clearance. With a heavy duty jackstand like you have I would not be worried about the car falling as long as you are on a hard surface. If you are still worried you could get some old rims to put under the car for the extra safety factor
 
#3 ·
old fords said:
I am not really sure on that car. If it will not come off you might be able to unbolt the engine front the mounts and lift it a couple inches to gain the extra clearance. With a heavy duty jackstand like you have I would not be worried about the car falling as long as you are on a hard surface. If you are still worried you could get some old rims to put under the car for the extra safety factor
well its not on a hard surface its rocks.


Also why didnt i think about using a tire? thats a great idea.
 
#4 ·
Motors is better than Chiltons.. but your best bet is to locate a factory tecnical service manual for your car... these do exist and are fairly common to find on Ebay.


anyway.. to pull the pan, you'll need to loosen trans mounts, and engine mounts and raise the engine up a little.. the crossmember is in the way of the pan on AMC's


BTW... I had a '65 Rambler American, and changing the E- brake cables 1 day. it slipped off the jack and came down on me.. got lucky and only had 1 broken rib
 
#5 ·
matt167 said:
Motors is better than Chiltons.. but your best bet is to locate a factory tecnical service manual for your car... these do exist and are fairly common to find on Ebay.


anyway.. to pull the pan, you'll need to loosen trans mounts, and engine mounts and raise the engine up a little.. the crossmember is in the way of the pan on AMC's


BTW... I had a '65 Rambler American, and changing the E- brake cables 1 day. it slipped off the jack and came down on me.. got lucky and only had 1 broken rib
that makes me feel alot better..... but i did put a tire and a brick about 4 inches tall under the car on the side i am working on tire on ground brick on tire.
 
#7 ·
would you really need to pull it out? looks like there is a crap load of empty space around it in the engince compartment. you could just lift the car and work around it... anyways, the oil pan should just be bolted on at the bottom of the engine. I have never seen a car that old, but on everything I ever worked on (pretty much 1990+ imports), its pretty much just bolted on. or, really, the bottom half is typically bolted onto the upper half. just make sure the car dont fall on you, get under it, and it should not take you more then an hour... if you take your sweet time.
 
#8 ·
KoTT said:
would you really need to pull it out? looks like there is a crap load of empty space around it in the engince compartment. you could just lift the car and work around it... anyways, the oil pan should just be bolted on at the bottom of the engine. I have never seen a car that old, but on everything I ever worked on (pretty much 1990+ imports), its pretty much just bolted on. or, really, the bottom half is typically bolted onto the upper half. just make sure the car dont fall on you, get under it, and it should not take you more then an hour... if you take your sweet time.

well all i need to do is take out the broken gear so that inch or so of space should be perfect for me to get a grabber in there. yeah i got a few bolts to take out it takes about 5 minnits a side (or so) but on the front there are 2 bolt like things sticking out of the engine and there is a nut on each one. i need a deep thin wall socket and i dont have one so im waiting for my cousin to come home so i can borrow one of his. once thats done like 2 minnits to get the crap out then another 10 to put it back on and its good to go.
 
#9 ·
Drain the oil before unbolting the pan. Otherwise, if it starts to move, the shifting oil will change the CG and the pan will tilt farther faster, allowing the oil to get to your working surface (floor . . . or rocks).

Before replacing the pan, very carefully try to clean it. Make sure you can reach inside with rags to remove any residual gasket material. Plan on scraping the mating surfaces where the pan meets the block. Buy a new oil pan gasket set. Buy an appropriate gasket sealer as well.

I'm not an engine expert, but I think the engine experts here would agree with me. They'd probably also agree that it'd be best to pull the pan completely to be certian that no debris remained in the pan, that the pan got properly cleaned, and that the mating block surfaces were completely clean and dry prior to new-gasket installation. I'm not certain how the pan end-seals (if any) are arranged on an old AMC engine. Maybe you'll get lucky. But in the long run, I'm certain you'll be happier if you do this well, rather than just quickly. It's kinda like building a web page. You can do something quickly. You can do something well. The results will be different. You'll be happier with the results of the later. With a web page, doing it quickly doesn't wind up with oil leaking and getting blown onto the exhaust, creating a stink wherever you go. Changing an oil pan gasket . . . . well, you figure it out.

But sincerely, good luck with this.

Pat
 
#10 ·
PatM said:
Drain the oil before unbolting the pan. Otherwise, if it starts to move, the shifting oil will change the CG and the pan will tilt farther faster, allowing the oil to get to your working surface (floor . . . or rocks).

Before replacing the pan, very carefully try to clean it. Make sure you can reach inside with rags to remove any residual gasket material. Plan on scraping the mating surfaces where the pan meets the block. Buy a new oil pan gasket set. Buy an appropriate gasket sealer as well.

I'm not an engine expert, but I think the engine experts here would agree with me. They'd probably also agree that it'd be best to pull the pan completely to be certian that no debris remained in the pan, that the pan got properly cleaned, and that the mating block surfaces were completely clean and dry prior to new-gasket installation. I'm not certain how the pan end-seals (if any) are arranged on an old AMC engine. Maybe you'll get lucky. But in the long run, I'm certain you'll be happier if you do this well, rather than just quickly. It's kinda like building a web page. You can do something quickly. You can do something well. The results will be different. You'll be happier with the results of the later. With a web page, doing it quickly doesn't wind up with oil leaking and getting blown onto the exhaust, creating a stink wherever you go. Changing an oil pan gasket . . . . well, you figure it out.

But sincerely, good luck with this.

Pat
yeah the seal between the oil pan and the engine block will probbly disintegrate when i take it off. what i plan to do after removing the chunks of parts is clean it out with motor oil. im going to pour oil in 1 side very quickly and let it drain out the back hole. hopefully that will pull and small pieces out. i will do this several times. and the before i put the oil back in the car i will probbly strain it through an old Tshirt to get the small pieces out of the oil.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Don't worry about saving the old oil, or the new oil you use to flush out the engine/oil pan with- it's not worth the trouble.

The gear likely broke cleanly into two pieces, but it wouldn't have shattered into many little pieces. Save what you dig out- how ever it is that you do it, and "reassemble" the pieces so you can see if any are missing.

IIRC, the oil pump is taken off the cam at an angle, not from directly below the distributor like many engines, so I would be making myself a l-o-n-g magnetic "fishing pole" and see what I could fish out w/it, from through the distributor hole.

In any event, the x-member can be unbolted and held down out of the way enough to get the pan off (blocks between the x-mem. & the body underside), no problem if the OP didn't have a hoist to remove the engine.

Edit- Position #1 piston half way up the cylinder. Idler and sway bar has to be removed, along w/the front springs. Bummer. Easier to just pull the lump, IMO.
 
#12 ·
cobalt327 said:
Don't worry about saving the old oil, or the new oil you use to flush out the engine/oil pan with- it's not worth the trouble.

The gear likely broke cleanly into two pieces, but it wouldn't have shattered into many little pieces. Save what you dig out- how ever it is that you do it, and "reassemble" the pieces so you can see if any are missing.

IIRC, the oil pump is taken off the cam at an angle, not from directly below the distributor like many engines, so I would be making myself a l-o-n-g magnetic "fishing pole" and see what I could fish out w/it, from through the distributor hole.

In any event, the x-member can be unbolted and held down out of the way enough to get the pan off (blocks between the x-mem. & the body underside), no problem if the OP didn't have a hoist to remove the engine.

Edit- Position #1 piston half way up the cylinder. Idler and sway bar has to be removed, along w/the front springs. Bummer. Easier to just pull the lump, IMO.
well my dad has a craftsman magnetec arm thingy like you suggested but i tested it with the extra gear my dad had and it dose not seem to have good enough magnetic pull to get the pieces out. so i am going to use a grabber my dad has. it should work just the same.

yeah ill check the 2 pieces and see if it looks like anything small would have shattered off ov it.

good suggestion.
 
#16 ·
You will have a heck of a time cleaning it enough to get a good seal with a new gasket by just droping the pan down a little. It really needs to come out. Sometimes you can unbolt the engine mounts and lift teh engine with an engine crane enough to get the pan out. I would not start messing with any suspension bolts that have been in there for 50 years, you are asking for trouble.
If you can fish the parts out with a magnet that would be great just make sure you get the whole gear. It may be bronze so the magnet may not work.

Good luck !!
 
#18 · (Edited)
T-bucket23 said:
You will have a heck of a time cleaning it enough to get a good seal with a new gasket by just droping the pan down a little. It really needs to come out. Sometimes you can unbolt the engine mounts and lift teh engine with an engine crane enough to get the pan out. I would not start messing with any suspension bolts that have been in there for 50 years, you are asking for trouble.
If you can fish the parts out with a magnet that would be great just make sure you get the whole gear. It may be bronze so the magnet may not work.

Good luck !!
the magnet i have is not powerful enough to find the pieces. it keeps sticking to the oil pan or engine.

i was not going to do any kind of deep clean or anything. just something to try and make sure all the little pieces are out if the gear had shattered.

the car may be old but it has very little rust on it. just on some small areas.

EDIT: Oh yeah i was going to say but forgot.

i got all the bolts off except for one and it was in between the engine and an engine mount. there was no room to get a socket or anything else in there. it looked like it was bent but it very well likely was not.

so i took all the bolts and put them back in. i keep telling my dad that we should pull the engine out and get the stuff out before we attempt to put it in time and try to start it but he (and my cousin) says it shouldn't cause a problem. from what iv read on these forums im a little worried that something is going to get jammed into the oil pump or something else inside the engine and destroy it...
 
#19 · (Edited)
thelasthallow said:
from what iv read on these forums im a little worried that something is going to get jammed into the oil pump or something else inside the engine and destroy it...
You can get a strong magnet and JB Weld it to the bottom of the pan- it may capture the pieces and hold them from getting tossed around, but iffy @ best...

But for the fishing magnet- I'm talking about one w/some oomph. This one (couple bucks @ Auto Zone, IIRC) extends to 32", and will pick up well over what the dolly in the photo weighs. It would help if the shaft was articulated, but even so, it will have the same problem w/it sticking to everything else, but if it ever got ahold of the gear pieces, they'd be coming back out!
 

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#20 ·
cobalt327 said:
You can get a strong magnet and JB Weld it to the bottom of the pan- it may capture the pieces and hold them from getting tossed around, but iffy @ best...

But for the fishing magnet- I'm talking about one w/some oomph. This one (couple bucks @ Auto Zone, IIRC) extends to 32", and will pick up well over what the dolly in the photo weighs. It would help if the shaft was articulated, but even so, it will have the same problem w/it sticking to everything else, but if it ever got ahold of the gear pieces, they'd be coming back out!
that would actually help if i could get the oil pan off. ill probbly try and buy one anyways just in case.

looks small enough to fit down into the distributer hole
 
#21 ·
You can get the pan off without removing the engine.
1. Jack the car up and support it. Jack stands are best, I'll drop it at that. Support the car just behind the front wheels, and block at least one back one front and back.
2. Lift the hood and support the engine. A 2x4 (4x4 is better, or double 2x4s nailed together) thrown across the fenders with a chain hooked to the head will be fine. You can get a big eye or J bolt from Lowe's (3/8") and drill the board for that. Then you can use the bolt to lift a little more if needed. All you need it 2-3 chain links to connect to the front left (left of engine -- side of a car is always from the driver's viewpoint!) head bolt directly to the J-bolt. Put some rags between boards and fender tops, of course. With the bolt and plenty threads you don't need an engine lift, but if you have one remove the hood and support the engine with that. You only need to lift the engine about an inch, or really just support it where it is. I'd run the bolt up where the engine is, unbolt the mounts, then run it up another inch if possible.
3. The engine support crossmember also supports the lower steering arms. There are three bolts on each side holding it to the "frame". Take those out and you can pry the crossmember down. You may need to remover the lower suspension arms, or at least one of them, to get the crossmember down far enough to get the pan out.
4. Once the pan is out, clean it, clean gasket surfaces, and replace the gasket. Wipe the gasket surfaces on the engine and pan with mineral spirits or paint thinner, rubbing alcohol if nothing else. Use a thin layer of silicone sealer on the pan and stick the gasket in place. Let it cure for about an hour, then put a thin layer on the gasket and stick the pan back on. Letting the silicone cure an hour will keep the gasket in place if you bump it a bit putting it back on.

The engine was most likely replaced because the original needed rebuilding and the smaller one was newer/better. A smaller good engine is better than a big worn out one! Once all this is done you might want to look into rebuilding the original, that is if you enjoy driving/tinkering with the old car. Ramblers can be addictive!
 
#22 ·
farna said:
You can get the pan off without removing the engine.
Nice detailed explanation- but I've been barking up this tree (twice now) to no avail. Prolly too confusing and/or daunting for someone w/o any real experience. And for good reason.

It might be the best thing in the end to sell the car to someone who can enjoy working on it. The OP's dad is remembering this car from years ago, and we all know how time plays tricks on reality when things are "fondly remembered".

If not, get a Motors Manual that covers the year of the vehicle and read up on removing the engine or removing the oil pan- depending on how the job will proceed.
 
#23 ·
cobalt327 said:
Nice detailed explanation- but I've been barking up this tree (twice now) to no avail. Prolly too confusing and/or daunting for someone w/o any real experience. And for good reason.

It might be the best thing in the end to sell the car to someone who can enjoy working on it. The OP's dad is remembering this car from years ago, and we all know how time plays tricks on reality when things are "fondly remembered".

If not, get a Motors Manual that covers the year of the vehicle and read up on removing the engine or removing the oil pan- depending on how the job will proceed.
well i have decided not to take the oil pan out of the car at this time and have gone with what my dad wants. just leave the pieces in there for now...

watch for a new topic soon as i will have more questions.
 
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