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Old 06-02-2011, 10:02 PM
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harmonic balancer wobble

ok i am having a problem with my harmonic balancer on my chevy 350. the engine is new with about only 5,000 miles on it so i dont think the crank snout is bent or anything like that. The balancer has a pretty bad wobble to it. and yes the balancer is new this is the thrid one ive put on. i rented the tool to install the balancer and im pretty sure its in all the way but how do i know for sure. I have a gilmer belt drive for it and throwing my belt right off the alternator. it pissing me off pretty bad having to install and remove the balancer so many times already. what can i do to fix this problem.

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Old 06-02-2011, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devildawg88
ok i am having a problem with my harmonic balancer on my chevy 350. the engine is new with about only 5,000 miles on it so i dont think the crank snout is bent or anything like that. The balancer has a pretty bad wobble to it. and yes the balancer is new this is the thrid one ive put on. i rented the tool to install the balancer and im pretty sure its in all the way but how do i know for sure. I have a gilmer belt drive for it and throwing my belt right off the alternator. it pissing me off pretty bad having to install and remove the balancer so many times already. what can i do to fix this problem.
Have you replaced the damper 3 times because it wobbles each time? Exact same type/brand of damper or ? Have you checked the sonot of the crank or the damper itself for runout, or are you going by the pulley?

Was the crank used w/a blower?

A new damper may have a smaller ID than an OEM unit. If so it will need to be honed to give a 0.001"-0.0015" press fit. The damper can be installed using a installation tool after warming the damper hub in scalding hot water.
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:17 AM
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Dial Indicator

Mount a dial indicator on the cover of the engine set it to zero touching the

crank snout,have some one turn over engine see how far out it is.Not on the

key way part.If you have to put a bolt and washer in it and go off that.

cobalt327 is right the balancer with warm up should just slide on.

Blower cranks bend alot and some break destroying the engine.

Fords blown Mustangs engines with the Centrifugal blowers are tearing the

snouts off the motors too much load and destroying the frontend off the blocks

main web.
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Old 06-03-2011, 02:38 AM
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the first damper was an 8" then i bought i 6 3/4 one for it. so they been different and i start the engine with just the damper on it and i notice the wobble. if i put the pulley on it it's worst. but once the engine is rev-ed up it goes away. i don't think the snout of crank is bent like i said the engine is fairly new. i never had a blower on it. my buddy said he thinks its not going all the way on but when i do install it i tighten it as much as i possibly can and i still get the wobble.
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Old 06-03-2011, 04:06 AM
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Still get a dial indicator on it ,the crank its self even new doesnt mean its

perfect.Then get a micrometer out and check the bore hole and the snout

diameter.

After that put some Prussian blue on the crank and slip the balancer back on

this will give a good indication were the balancer stops on the crank snout.

Look on youtube at dial indicating out of round shafts ,best way to show you

what to do.After that you would know for sure what you have.you might have

a broken crank snub behind front main bearing.

Pry up on the crank see if it moves or makes a metallic sound,not alot of pressure
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devildawg88
the first damper was an 8" then i bought i 6 3/4 one for it. so they been different and i start the engine with just the damper on it and i notice the wobble. if i put the pulley on it it's worst. but once the engine is rev-ed up it goes away. i don't think the snout of crank is bent like i said the engine is fairly new. i never had a blower on it. my buddy said he thinks its not going all the way on but when i do install it i tighten it as much as i possibly can and i still get the wobble.
I seriously doubt the wobble goes away when the RPM increases. More likely it blurs so you no longer can track it visually.

But in any event, the damper will butt against the crank timing gear when the damper is fully installed. So measure the distance from the end of the crank to the flat register of the timing gear where the damper touches it. Then measure the length of the damper's ID. Subtract the length of the crank snout from the damper ID and the result is how far inside the damper ID the end of the crank should be.
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devildawg88
ok i am having a problem with my harmonic balancer on my chevy 350. the engine is new with about only 5,000 miles on it so i dont think the crank snout is bent or anything like that. The balancer has a pretty bad wobble to it. and yes the balancer is new this is the thrid one ive put on. i rented the tool to install the balancer and im pretty sure its in all the way but how do i know for sure. I have a gilmer belt drive for it and throwing my belt right off the alternator. it pissing me off pretty bad having to install and remove the balancer so many times already. what can i do to fix this problem.
A Gilmer belt? Is this running a blower or is it you're confusing the terms for a ribbed serpentine with a Gilmer, they look different. The ribs of a serpentine run with the length. The ribs of a Gilmer run across the width. If you're not running a blower you certainly don't need a Gilmer.

If you are running a blower, they do pull the crank around a lot, they are really touchy on set up and will bend the crank snout. It doesn't take much bending to really wobble the damper, what you're looking at for wobble is the effect of the bend dimension of the crank times the radius of the damper.

As has been suggested, you need to get a dial indicator on the snout. This should mount on the engine so you don't read movement from the engine mounts to crankshaft. A magnetic head to anchor this thing on the block or timing cover, block would be better. The indicator touching the crank clear of the damper's key slot but on the forward snout area under the damper. If the shaft is bent or twisted the further toward the front end the more it will track off center. If you have a blower it might not be a permanent bend and won't show when the blower drive is disconnected. You will need someone to crank the engine from underneath at the ring gear and some one to watch the dial.

As far as dampers go you need to use the largest diameter damper you can get on there. Insufficient damping causes the snout to run off center because of unresolved secondary imbalances (firing order induced can't be eliminated only squelched at the ends); this event will quickly carve out the number one main followed shortly thereafter by rods 1 and 2. Practical experience speaking here and you're getting the benefit for free, I got to pay for this knowledge.

Bogie
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:37 AM
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Bogie, there are Gilmer-type pulley set ups sold by March and PC (others?) that replace the v-belt pulleys w/cogged pulleys.

OP has indicated "i never had a blower on it", it may have had one previously- who knows.

Video of cog drive.

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Old 06-06-2011, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Bogie, there are Gilmer-type pulley set ups sold by March and PC (others?) that replace the v-belt pulleys w/cogged pulleys.

OP has indicated "i never had a blower on it", it may have had one previously- who knows.

Video of cog drive.

Yes I'm aware of that, in my little world, I build engines for the business of making power so why one spends money on looks and not power always catches me with surprise. Not that I'm into rat rods, but I'm also not into the show car circuit either.


Bogie
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Old 06-06-2011, 10:30 AM
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The Gilmer-type belt/pulley set-ups actually first came to my attention here on this forum by a member who is using them. They look to be rugged, although I don't know if the pulley offset required to run the wide belt would cause any excess wear to the bearings.

Personally I'm not much for eye candy, either. Mainly because I have a real hard time justifying the cost. Because of that, I've not felt the need to use anything different than V-belts, other than an OEM-sourced serpentine set-up.

To anyone interested in a low-buck alternative to aftermarket underdrive V-belt pulleys, the V-belt pulley sets from the 1978-'84 200/229 cid Chevy V6 90 engines provide an accessory under drive compared to the V8 pulley sets. Only thing is, those engines (non 4.3L Chevy 90 V6's) are all but gone these days.
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:35 AM
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I just put mine on ( holden 173 red) and I have the same problem just replaced the balancer and no good wobble is still there. Did you work out what was causing it
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:24 AM
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did the original balancer that fail,slip on the crank nose due to a broken key or keyway?
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