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Old 02-13-2007, 06:52 AM
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Having a hard time with cam choice

I need some advice on what cam to run. Here is what I have.

I intend to use it for: Street performance with weekend track runs. Want to keep low torque for the size of the car, snappy throttle, but nice high rpm pull

1969 Ford torino formal roof, 3400 + lbs
Ford 302 +.030
5cc stock type notched pistons
AFR 165cc runner, 58cc chamber heads (sweet lil heads)
Alum 1.6 roller rockers, stud 3/8 mount
Compression will be 9.2 - 9.4
Stock converter (as of now)
3:73 gears
long tube headers 2.5in exhaust
600 cfm edelbrock carb
Edelbrock RPM (1500 - 6500+) or Weiand Stealth (idle to 6000rpm) manifold
hydraulic flat tappet lifters / cam

OK...now the cams I have been looking at, they have been all over the board in duration and lift.

Comps 270H (so far my best choice)
Operating Range: 1800-5800 RPM
Duration Advertised: 270 Intake / 270 Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' Lift: 224 Intake / 224 Exhaust
Valve Lift w/1.6 Rockers: .500'' Intake / .500'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle: 110

Edelbrocks Performer RPM's
Operating Range 1500-6500 RPM
Duration Advertised 290 Intake/300 Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' 224 Intake/234 Exhaust
Lift @ Valve .496'' Intake/.520'' Exhaust
Lift @ Cam .310'' Intake/.325'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle 112
Intake Centerline 107
Intake Timing @ .050" Open 5 BTDC
Close 39 ABDC
Exhaust Timing @ .050" Open 54 BBDC
Close 0 ATDC

or
Comps
Xtreme Energy XE262H Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft
Lift: .493''/.500''
Duration: 262/270
RPM Range: 1300-5600

I dont run anything that will require vaccume, so lopey idle to me is good.
But I have no idea on how much duration vs lift for the size or car to get good low end torque and hi rpm HP. Any advice would be well advised,

Thanks,

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Old 02-13-2007, 08:40 AM
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Anyone? I guess I should just pick a conservative one and if it dosnt work I'll try something else.
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Old 02-13-2007, 08:55 AM
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You have good heads, stay single pattern. You have a running weight closer to 3650-3800. Tight converter. 9.3 compression.

You said you want to keep low end torque.

Single pattern
110* LSA
212* @ .050 (maximum it's only 302)

I'd use Isky or Comps. Buy their lifters and springs.

CompCams H260 31-216-2 with .447 lift

Air Gap or RPM, or comparable Weiand.

Last edited by xntrik; 02-13-2007 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 02-13-2007, 09:09 AM
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OK thanks for the response. Guess I was off a bit on the weight sorry.

So im looking at too much lift and duration it seems?? Also you say stay single, I thought ford's really liked the higher lifts and duration on the exhaust. no?

So maybe the 268H comp cam?

"Good for dailey driven performance vehicles. Mid-range power. better with slightly lower gears. Mild rough idle."

Operating Range: 1500-5500 RPM
Duration Advertised: 268 Intake / 268 Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' Lift: 218 Intake / 218 Exhaust
Valve Lift w/1.6 Rockers: .456'' Intake / .456'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle: 110
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Old 02-13-2007, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksunshine
OK thanks for the response. Guess I was off a bit on the weight sorry.

So im looking at too much lift and duration it seems?? Also you say stay single, I thought ford's really liked the higher lifts and duration on the exhaust. no?

So maybe the 268H comp cam?

"Good for dailey driven performance vehicles. Mid-range power. better with slightly lower gears. Mild rough idle."

Operating Range: 1500-5500 RPM
Duration Advertised: 268 Intake / 268 Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' Lift: 218 Intake / 218 Exhaust
Valve Lift w/1.6 Rockers: .456'' Intake / .456'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle: 110

It's a 302 not a 351. Over 12 pounds per cubic inch to haul around.

You have good flowing heads. Not stock weenies of 124 cc runners and 1.74/1.45 valves that flow 150/105.
If you go that cam (mild rough idle, not just lopey), count on 2600 stall, or you'll hate it.
Just my opinion. Got a 68 and a 70 out here.

Think of this, 5.0 fuelie cars are 208/212 on 115* LSA (to make them idle with single plane intake) .444 lift and they run pretty well. They're biggest problem is low rpm torque induction system good to 5300. When changed to carb they do OK to 5600 with that cam but lose lots at the bottom end.

People out here will tell you to get an XE268H.
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Old 02-13-2007, 10:04 AM
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hmmmm ok, maybe I should leave the cam thats in it?

Its an edelbrock performer plus

lift .448/.472
dur @50 is 204/214
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Old 02-13-2007, 02:29 PM
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Looks like a nice build. A little more to think about.
Keep in mind that valve clearance should be checked with stock type pistons and these heads. I am running AFR 165's on one of my engines as well, with much deeper cuts in the pistons than stock. When lift goes beyond .500" be certain it is checked.
As far as dual or single pattern, in general, single pattern cams were made for track use where no pipes or mufflers were used. Dual pattern is for any engine that must run with these items.
Ford engines like dual pattern as well as most factory engines of any brand but now you have AFR heads that don't have factory restrictions so we start over from there. Either pattern works but as you have found, dual pattern is most recommended for street use. (i like single pattern's but it's not 1970 any more).
Be certain not to go too short on duration when pump gas is used. A small duration cam with 9.4-1 can be a little too much and you end up with less timing, less response and more time at the gas station. With this engine i like to see 270-280 advertised duration in a vehicle like yours. With a 110 lobe centerline this would work very well.
If you buy a cam along these lines and the company recommends it for your rpm range and compression ratio, your first choice should do the job.
I recommend you talk to a tech at Chet Herbert cams and take thier recommendations into the picture as well. They will grind a custom cam for your setup only, and it can be less costly than one off the shelf.
I have used a number of thier cams and all worked well.
I would recommend that you figure the exact static compression ratio with a calculator such as the one at the KB pistons site. With a definite number for the ratio it would help narrow things down.
Hope this helps out.
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Old 02-13-2007, 02:57 PM
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Call Clay Smith Cams, and talk to George, get a reccomendation from him. I just called him and ordered a cam for my 200 I6 turbo engine, what he reccomended/sold me went against everything I knew about turbo cams, but, I trusted him, gave me specific instructions to install it at 107* intake centerline, and that with my 1.65 rockers, it would have just over .495 lift. what he sold me was there 274H cam, which is 274/274 .450/.450 110* LSA, really, I thought I was going to go custom, with somthing like 264/254 .450/.445 114* LSA but he said that the 110* will spool the turbo faster, and be better for the street.
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
Call Clay Smith Cams, and talk to George, get a reccomendation from him. I just called him and ordered a cam for my 200 I6 turbo engine, what he reccomended/sold me went against everything I knew about turbo cams, but, I trusted him, gave me specific instructions to install it at 107* intake centerline, and that with my 1.65 rockers, it would have just over .495 lift. what he sold me was there 274H cam, which is 274/274 .450/.450 110* LSA, really, I thought I was going to go custom, with somthing like 264/254 .450/.445 114* LSA but he said that the 110* will spool the turbo faster, and be better for the street.
Great! i can give these guys a call and compare their differences. I've always slapped in edelbock cams that match their intake and heads untill I really understood he importance or a right cam....now this is become some homwork
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Old 02-13-2007, 06:07 PM
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If you guys want some "heavy" cam info to add to your minds...
Go to Slantsix.org, click on the Engine page, and read the first "Cam" thread. Sorry, I don't have the link with me. You'll have to read it twice. It's aimed at 6 cylinders in general, but I'm sure some applies to 8's. Good stuff.
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Old 02-14-2007, 09:31 AM
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I think im sold on a cam. The Comp Xtreme energy 262H (XE262H) Its a more technically advanced that the 270H and edelbrocks, with the high flowing AFR 165cc runners and smaller valves (1.9/1.6) valves I hope to pull some high quick torque numbers.

The XE268H is a good choice but I was told without a higher converter and some steeper gears I wont gain much out of it. I wish they would invent an electric cam you could dial in the duration and lift...that would be cool.
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Old 02-14-2007, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksunshine
I think im sold on a cam. The Comp Xtreme energy 262H (XE262H) Its a more technically advanced that the 270H and edelbrocks, with the high flowing AFR 165cc runners and smaller valves (1.9/1.6) valves I hope to pull some high quick torque numbers.

The XE268H is a good choice but I was told without a higher converter and some steeper gears I wont gain much out of it. I wish they would invent an electric cam you could dial in the duration and lift...that would be cool.

I suggest you go to ISKY website and read tech stuff # 2003 and 2004. They have been grinding cams for 50+ years and almost invented the industry.

Variable duration cams have been invented, and used currently in "modern" engines.

You will need a good stall converter anyway.


Edited= excerpt from Isky site....... http://www.iskycams.com/techtips.php

..........However, High Performance is another thing entirely. Change one factor, let's say in this case, the exhaust system (installing headers and larger pipes) and you have just negated in most cases, the need for that longer exhaust lobe. Now couple this change with a different intake system and camshaft and you have really scrambled the equation. But, wait just a moment. Why is it that so many people (racers & cam grinders alike) insist on running a cam with longer exhaust duration regardless of what equipment is employed? The answer is "habit". Most of them have been somewhat successful in doing it their way and will probably never change unless virtually forced by circumstances to do so..........

Example #2 (Drag Racing) At the drag strip it's a little different and I feel more honest. Here, racers have long enjoyed longer exhaust... duration ......(If I may add specifically for the purpose of "killing" low-end torque) .........

Last edited by xntrik; 02-14-2007 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 02-14-2007, 11:21 AM
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What a great article! Thanks, good read!!

I now am still considering other choices.
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