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-   -   having problems with new 383 stroker motor (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/having-problems-new-383-stroker-motor-139440.html)

Gary 4866 05-27-2008 10:33 PM

having problems with new 383 stroker motor
 
My name is Gary. I have built a new 383 stroker motor that t I am very disappointed in. I thought I would have alot more torge and hospower.

This is what I have.

383 block now. all machine work done at a speed shop.lower end
have 1.9.5.1 compression pistons.
Edelbrock 170cc heads 70 cc
Edlebrock 7102 roller cam 234* intake and 244* exchust 488 lift on intake and 510 lift on exchust LBA is 112*
Edlebroker proformer RPM maifold
750 Edlebrook carb
MSD ignition

don't have any low end torge, runs like hell after 3000 RPM
Running 16 initial timing hook up vacumm advance to full vacumm up to 34* all in at 2500 RPM final advance at 52* at 3000 RPM
four speed transmission (Manueal)
Cain anybody help, where did I go wrong
I want to make this a mean street machine. not racing on track. Money is no problem.

Gary :confused:

hotrod66_57 05-27-2008 11:55 PM

Well, it's a little late but i'll give at least take a shot at this. The intake and carb package you have is a good package, it's the same thing I have on my 383. The biggest thing that jumps out at me is your compression ratio. It's hard to say what cc head the compression ratio of 9.5 : 1 was for. If that's 9.5 : 1 with let's say 64 cc combustion chambers then you're going to get a bit lower number with your 70 cc chambers.

Other than that the only immediate thing that would jump out would be carb tuning / timing. I'm pretty terrible at tuning, but I've found that many degrees of advance tend to give you much better high rpm response / power, but tends to leave your lower end a little soft. you've got a package that's advertised as being good from 1500 to 6000 rpm so sacrificing some of that top end grunt for a little bottom end might help. you can also get distributer kits that have different weights and springs to change what your advance curve looks like, this might help, especially if you're using a stock distributor.

Also, what's your rear gear and weight of your vehicle, as these will all effect the feel you get as the driver. a lighter vehicle with 4.10's in the rearend is obviously going to feel like a different animal off the line than a heavier vehicle with 3.08's. but this difference might be less noticeable once you're rolling and the rev's start building.

just my 2 cents.

on a side note, if money is really not an problem look at forced induction, low compression ratio engines typically take well to that ;).

Hope that helped.

hotrod

oldbogie 05-28-2008 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary 4866
My name is Gary. I have built a new 383 stroker motor that t I am very disappointed in. I thought I would have alot more torge and hospower.

This is what I have.

383 block now. all machine work done at a speed shop.lower end
have 1.9.5.1 compression pistons.
Edelbrock 170cc heads 70 cc
Edlebrock 7102 roller cam 234* intake and 244* exchust 488 lift on intake and 510 lift on exchust LBA is 112*
Edlebroker proformer RPM maifold
750 Edlebrook carb
MSD ignition

don't have any low end torge, runs like hell after 3000 RPM
Running 16 initial timing hook up vacumm advance to full vacumm up to 34* all in at 2500 RPM final advance at 52* at 3000 RPM
four speed transmission (Manueal)
Cain anybody help, where did I go wrong
I want to make this a mean street machine. not racing on track. Money is no problem.

Gary :confused:

That's a lot of camshaft for the street. My impression of the heads are that the ports are too small and combustion chambers too big. In the first case small ports emphasize the reversion qualities of an over cammed engine at low speed and aren't big enough to let the engine breath at high speed. The cam emphasizes the former and hides the latter for awhile at least.

I can't speak to compression without knowing what the pistons are or what the deck clearance and gasket thickness is, but my first impression with 70cc chambers is that you're risking insufficient compression if these other things I site are a little on the big side. I know you state the pistons are 9.5 but this is something that has to be measured, if that number comes off somebody's documentation, who knows what it really is?

52 degrees of advance is an awful lot.

Vehicle weight and final gearing come into play as well.

Bogie

techinspector1 05-28-2008 01:29 AM

"don't have any low end torge, runs like hell after 3000 RPM"

Classic symptom of too much cam for the available static compression ratio.

"have 1.9.5.1 compression pistons."

There is no such thing as 9.5 pistons or 10.5 pistons or 11.5 pistons or any other "stated as such and such compression ratio" pistons. Static compression ratio is a function of cylinder volume, piston deck height volume, piston crown volume, head gasket volume and combustion chamber volume.

Double_v23 05-28-2008 07:14 AM

I beg to differ on the above statement, the piston companies rate the compression on their pistons with the following constants.

64cc chamber
.038 compressed gasket
.010 in the hole
.030 over bore

So if a person builds their engine to these specs then there is such a thing as 9.5 compression pistons. However, most of time these specs are ignored or not even measured to find out what the builder actually has on the motor.

I guess what I am saying is that the chances are slim that he has 9.5 compression or that anyone has the advertised compression of the piston manufacturer. But it is not because the pistons are advertised incorrectly.

Gary 4866 05-28-2008 09:02 AM

The motor is .060 over stock bore. I have found out that the pistons are half dished, so with 70 cc heads I must be real low on compression.
Would it help to buy some AFR 64 cc heads, and would I need to drop down on the cam or can I still run the same one.

Double_v23 05-28-2008 10:09 AM

64cc heads would help, or you could have your heads angle milled to 64cc or less.

There are also things you can do with the heads gaskets, the thinnest ones I have found that are not steel shims are .021 compressed thickness.

We use these in some dirt track motors that see 8000 rpm. they are Gm Performance parts # 10105117.

hotrod66_57 05-28-2008 01:15 PM

If it were my engine i would have the heads milled down to a smaller chamber size. If you've already spent the money on aftermarket heads in the first place it's worth the cost of machining to see if that helps.

Just for the sake of correctness i think that with a 60 over bore you'll actually be at 388 cubic inches. It's always nice to know that you've picked up an extra 5 cubic inches though :D

hotrod

double_v, is that like an industry standard for piston manufacturers? I'm just curious if that's what you should expect the rating to be given at for any company. That's pretty good information if it is!

Double_v23 05-28-2008 01:20 PM

Yes, I called several piston manufacturers, and they all said the same thing. It is not required by law or anything so it is always best to check with the company that makes the piston you are considering.

454C10 05-28-2008 01:36 PM

what gear ratio and what transmission/stall converter.

Timing:
set timing at 18 degrees initial (without the vacuum advance connected).

rev up the engine and it should go to 36 to 38 degrees (without the vacuum advance).

buy an adjustable vacuum advance canister and set it to add another 12 to 14 degrees. Try running off the manifold vacuum.


carb:
after you set the timing adjust idle mixture for best idle.

get a holley 750 3310. junk the edlebrock

learn to read a plug and make mixture corrections

glen242 05-28-2008 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary 4866
My name is Gary. I have built a new 383 stroker motor that t I am very disappointed in. I thought I would have alot more torge and hospower.

This is what I have.

383 block now. all machine work done at a speed shop.lower end
have 1.9.5.1 compression pistons.
Edelbrock 170cc heads 70 cc
Edlebrock 7102 roller cam 234* intake and 244* exchust 488 lift on intake and 510 lift on exchust LBA is 112*
Edlebroker proformer RPM maifold
750 Edlebrook carb
MSD ignition

don't have any low end torge, runs like hell after 3000 RPM
Running 16 initial timing hook up vacumm advance to full vacumm up to 34* all in at 2500 RPM final advance at 52* at 3000 RPM
four speed transmission (Manueal)
Cain anybody help, where did I go wrong
I want to make this a mean street machine. not racing on track. Money is no problem.

Gary :confused:

Where did the 9.5 static CR come from? To be anywhere near accurate, calculate the CR yourself using KNOWN values as asked for in a CR program such as the one from KB.

My 383 specs:

'0' piston to deck height
0.030 overbore
Speed Pro -12cc dish pistons
FelPro 0.039 compressed head gasket
TF 23* heads with 64cc chambers and 195cc runners
3.75 stroke

Using these numbers, I come up with a 10.30 static CR on my engine.

I am running a CC XE274 hydraulic flat tappet cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, rebuilt stock Q-Jet rejetted etc., centrifugal timing is 35* all in by 2600 RPM, vacuum adds an additional 15* @ 9". Using manifold vacuum that is a maximum of 13".

ST10 4 speed, 3.36 RA. 3300# w/my lard *** in it.

Runs well on the street, using 89 octane, no strip time.

racecar100 05-30-2008 01:40 PM

If you put a smaller cam in there then you'll be happy.

Mustangsaly 05-30-2008 01:59 PM

with the right compression & gears that cam shaft should work on the street. a friend build a vortec headed 350 with a GM 1 piece roller block and used a roller cam and 1.6 rocker arms GMPP HOT hydraulic roller, with 0.525/0.525 in. of lift and 218/228 of duration @ 0.050 in. of lift.


this went in a 65 nova with 4 speed and 373s and 10.1CR & a 750 holley. works great on the street. this came off that ryans dyno page

techinspector1 05-30-2008 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double_v23
I beg to differ on the above statement, the piston companies rate the compression on their pistons with the following constants.

64cc chamber
.038 compressed gasket
.010 in the hole
.030 over bore

So if a person builds their engine to these specs then there is such a thing as 9.5 compression pistons. However, most of time these specs are ignored or not even measured to find out what the builder actually has on the motor.

I guess what I am saying is that the chances are slim that he has 9.5 compression or that anyone has the advertised compression of the piston manufacturer. But it is not because the pistons are advertised incorrectly.

Thanks, I stand corrected. :D

bubbahotep 08-12-2008 02:28 PM

just for reference, my 383 is 38* total at wide open. 18* at idle because its choppy. I'm talking about timing light on the tape and seeing 38* at 3000 and up. Sorry to drag up an old post


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