hazing in the clearcoat? help please - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2009, 05:52 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 10
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
hazing in the clearcoat? help please

I have a little issue with my clear and its bugging the hell out of me.

When i clear a car sometimes i get a hazing or fuzzy finish to the clear. Looking at the strip lights in the reflection of say a roof or bonnet it doesnt seem completly flat. Even after vigerous flatting with 1500/2000 and polishing. Sometimes the finish is like glass, others its quite fuzzy. Whats more annoying is that sometimes this wont happen for several weeks or months then it will dull slightly and produce the unwanted finish.

Its not massively noticable and ive never had a complaint from a customer about it but its bugging the hell out of me. Its obvliously more apparent in darker colours but i cant figure out what this is. It doesnt liok like solvent pop, its a much smaller problem than that but happens over the entire area. I thought it could be a water issue in the lines but i use quite a good water trap system. Im completly out of ideas and hope someone can help me out
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2009, 09:29 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 312
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts
"Im completly out of ideas and hope someone can help me out "

have no idea which paint system you're using but will try

1) you're too damn critical, the customer is happy, so be it
2) some colors are formulated that way to match the factory look
3) wrong reducer-hardener-clear combo, read the tech specs for the system
4) mixing cross brand materials, DON'T
5) solvent burn, too much material OR too little flashtime
6) old finish absorbed the solvent and is out-gassing, primer or filler still out- gassing
7) the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars
8) it is just a car and it IS going to the scrape-yard, no matter what

Have tons of fun with it, then grab a beer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2009, 09:42 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Georgia
Posts: 39
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
LOL Thats funny I don't care who you are
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2009, 09:43 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 12,671
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 614
Thanked 947 Times in 847 Posts
There is one tip in your description, it happens on the top surfaces.
Some clears are worse than others, but when piled on they get "milky" turning a whitish look. And even if they don't turn white, as time goes by they die back because of all the solvent that is trapped there.

You don't get it on the sides because you aren't applying it as wet and if you did it would likely run all over the floor. But because they are horizontal surfaces you could pour it out of the can and it wouldn't run. So because of this you are applying it super wet.

One of the dead givaways in trouble shooting is admiting what YOU did different where the problem occured.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2009, 11:44 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 10
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
oldBodyman, thanks for the reply. I think that i definatly do number 3 and 4 so will need to stop this.

MARTINSR, i take your point on board but i tend to hang my bonnets. I did a bonnet just last week and i hung it, definatly used the correct flash time etc and it noticed the problem the day after i sprayed it whilst i was polishing it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:11 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,573
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 10
Thanked 57 Times in 36 Posts
Everyone of your problems is caused by the base-coat and nothing else.

First these problems will always show up first in Dark green, Dark blue or black colors as they are about twice as slow to dry as most colors. A few reds, like guards-red will fall in this category also but only a few.

Cause by:::
*Either you are using a crappy system. (low grade)

*Using improper grade reducer for base-coat.

*Not letting base flash long enough between coats or before clearing.

Take you pick, its one of the three, how to test the theory? Let one of the bases set over night before clearing, that will compensate for a lot of errors.

All your problems are solvent related to base, contraction and traped solvent deep down, that is why sometimes it takes two weeks to show up, usually in first coat of base.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2009, 02:47 PM
mitmaks's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Grille
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Washington
Age: 30
Posts: 1,576
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
did you use 2K sealer? I was thinking maybe solvent in base/clear is reacting with body filler, etc underneath.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2009, 02:21 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 10
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i use 2k primer sealer yes with approx 10% or less solvent. I use 2k HS clear with no solvent. I use a mix of waterbase and solvent basecoat. Come to think of it, the last two colours i sprayed where this was apparent was a royal blue and black, both in solvent. I use the same slow speed reducer for everything.

The bonnet i did recently had a reaction with some previous paint and i had to dry flat this and spray the colour on really dry. I managed to get the colour on ok after about 10-12coats of real thin base, then cleared again with no solvent. The day after the hazing effect was quite apparent, probably the most noticable ive ever see it.

oldBodyman, your comments are the most interesting and i will definatly try leaving the base over night to see what happens!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2009, 03:34 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,573
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 10
Thanked 57 Times in 36 Posts
Yes those colors are the ones that cause the problems 99% of the time.

Remember, contrary to what the cut and paster moderators post on here (just a couple)
Humidity plays a big roll as to how fast the solvents get out, so when the humidity is high, it is very important that the first coat gets extra flash time.

A good rule of thumb is at 70 degrees 50% humidity or more first coat should flash 39 minutes.

Also with the blues and greens they tend to not cover as well and obviously if you now have 5-8 coats of base to cover there is a lot of solvents still trapped.

Worse part is when you see these contraction and hazing problems, they can also lead to poor shone chip resistance and or even de-lamination of the base, if solvents trapped in first coat or de-lamination of clear if just cleared to soon.

Water-base is even more critical.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2009, 10:42 PM
Countilaw's Avatar
Cox Custom Cars
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cleburne, TX
Age: 63
Posts: 498
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Barry is right, most people rush to get the second and third coats on. What seems like 20 minutes of waiting is usually 5 minutes. You get rushed to get the job done and apply the next coat way to early.

The solvents (reducers) get trapped under the next coat and after 3 coats of base, that's a lot of solvent under there. It works it's way to the clear and clouds the clear. The next event will be delamination.

Frank Cox
[URL=http://www*****************[/URL]

Last edited by poncho62; 11-10-2009 at 04:52 PM. Reason: Advertising. Please see: commercial posting guidelines.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:11 PM
jss's Avatar
jss jss is offline
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Age: 33
Posts: 104
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
is this what we are talking about? I too have this problem

first picture is my problem



second picture is after a wet sand and buff



3rd picture 50/50shot



I am using the sherwin wiliams dementions base and clear.

this problem comes and goes for me. I am trying to narrow it down.

I am thinking to many base coats and not enough dry time.. first problem is the demensions base is so (water down) needs alot of coats to fill colour correctly.

I use to paint with the Sherwin Williams Ultra 7000 which was so great but can't get local no more. so working with what I can

after the clear is buffed etc I too see it come back to a little foggy after a week or 2.

base is mixed 2:1 and clear is 4:1 I am using a med hardner

temp inside is about 15c
its winter in canada so can't do much more in my paint room

Last edited by jss; 01-23-2013 at 11:21 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:26 PM
TucsonJay's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 765
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 79 Times in 61 Posts
The last time I had this problem, I had used some PPG Concept paint that a customer had already bought. I sanded and buffed... but the orange peel and a couple sags came back!!!

I fielded the question about having the clear continue to shink over very long periods... and a guy who used only that system said to let it dry 2-3 months before i sand and buff!!! Screw that!

My own clear reaches a stable finish in 1-2 days, and never ever shrinks again! It might be the nature of your paint system, keeping it from being good for anything but force-drying... or requires a pefect mixture, ideal conditions, and flawless spray technique.

Personally... when a product proves to be too sensitive... I never use it again! }:-(
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2013, 04:16 PM
jss's Avatar
jss jss is offline
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Age: 33
Posts: 104
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
whats a good system to go with for clear these days?

hard to find in my area solvent based stuff these days
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2013, 07:50 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 1,818
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 248
Thanked 163 Times in 146 Posts
Southern Polyurethanes Inc

SPI has been mentioned a lot on this forum and I believe they have a canadian distributor now which makes it easier for you. Someone with more experience will chime in shortly Im sure
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2013, 08:07 AM
33Willys77's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 357
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 7
Thanked 53 Times in 51 Posts
Make sure you have a dry air in the hose when spraying and a good filter. Some high solids clear can actually trap moisture and air when being applied (very thick clear). Is the clear drying to fast? With the amount of orange peel, appears it may be drying too fast and the clear is not laying down flat. I have seen this with some Sherwin and PPG. I now use Wanda paint and I have superior results - plus I lay much more clear than most people do on a car because I am burying artwork. Make sure your flash times are correct - make sure the base is dry. Make sure your air pressure is high enough to atomize the clear.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I wetsanded through my clearcoat!! (and I have lots of tree sap!) fiscus Body - Exterior 4 06-18-2010 11:13 PM
Spray clearcoat over clearcoat, should I sand first? klingfilm Body - Exterior 4 10-14-2009 05:36 PM
decided to clearcoat it proge Body - Exterior 2 03-06-2009 06:26 AM
Shot clearcoat and roof paint broncoII88 Body - Exterior 2 04-25-2005 04:22 PM
Using Polyurethane for Clearcoat??? teched Body - Exterior 4 10-18-2004 06:00 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.