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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008, 04:21 PM
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Thanks for the info guys; sounds like it might just be the oil leaking from the rear of the intake that's making its way along the head/block seam.

Here's how I applied the RTV before I installed the intake...








Did I use enough RTV?

Thanks.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v8hed
Thanks for the info guys; sounds like it might just be the oil leaking from the rear of the intake that's making its way along the head/block seam.

Here's how I applied the RTV before I installed the intake...








Did I use enough RTV?

Thanks.
I never use RTV, it really doesn't make a good seal if there is the slightest hint of oil or other contaminates on the surface. It really isn't oil proof either for a long period of time. And you have no way to predict where the squeeze out is going on the inside of the engine. The thought of that stuff in the oil system keeps me awake at night.

I use a gasket rubber or cork. Set it in non-hardening Permatex mostly to keep in in place, and use a blob of Permatex to fill and join the corners.

Bogie
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Old 09-15-2008, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
I never use RTV, it really doesn't make a good seal if there is the slightest hint of oil or other contaminates on the surface. It really isn't oil proof either for a long period of time. And you have no way to predict where the squeeze out is going on the inside of the engine. The thought of that stuff in the oil system keeps me awake at night.

I use a gasket rubber or cork. Set it in non-hardening Permatex mostly to keep in in place, and use a blob of Permatex to fill and join the corners.

Bogie
There's so many personal views on this topic; I took the concensus which seemed to be to NOT use the cork end seals. However, I still have them laying around, so could use them along with some Permatex #2 when I address the leak. Do you have a pic, by any chance, that shows the amount of sealant to use? Have I gone overboard with the amount of RTV, or is the quantity about right? What about in the corners? Did I use enough? Should I use the same amount of Permatex with the cork seals sandwiched in between?
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Old 09-15-2008, 04:44 PM
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I know it is a Ford article, but I've used this technique a couple times on SBC's and had pretty good luck with it, I used a light coating of non-hardening sealer on the cork gasket and small blobs at each end. I don't know how much the dimpling really helps, but the theory behind it does make sense to me. I did it on both the intake and the block.

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/.../photo_15.html
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Old 09-15-2008, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by v8hed
There's so many personal views on this topic; I took the concensus which seemed to be to NOT use the cork end seals. However, I still have them laying around, so could use them along with some Permatex #2 when I address the leak. Do you have a pic, by any chance, that shows the amount of sealant to use? Have I gone overboard with the amount of RTV, or is the quantity about right? What about in the corners? Did I use enough? Should I use the same amount of Permatex with the cork seals sandwiched in between?
Just enough Permatex to hold the gasket in place, it's not actually making the seal. I's just easy to knock the gaskets out of position when mounting the intake. A blob in the corners, actually a small blob under the manifold to head gasket surrounding the tang area. Then a larger blob over the area where the end gasket and manifold gasket join. It's difficult to get this area to seal, so a blob under and over the gaskets here help cut off any potentially unsealable areas. Everybody's engines that use this one-piece manifold and valley cover design has a problem sealing these corners. It's a place with lots of movement both thermal and power loading with imperfect part alignment. Consider that the head and manifold mate at an angle and both are expanding and contracting with temperature changes while the block and head are squirming around with combustion loads that want to blow the head off as much as push the piston down, plus the dynamic couple within the block trying to rip the banks apart.

Bogie
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
Just enough Permatex to hold the gasket in place, it's not actually making the seal. I's just easy to knock the gaskets out of position when mounting the intake. A blob in the corners, actually a small blob under the manifold to head gasket surrounding the tang area. Then a larger blob over the area where the end gasket and manifold gasket join. It's difficult to get this area to seal, so a blob under and over the gaskets here help cut off any potentially unsealable areas. Everybody's engines that use this one-piece manifold and valley cover design has a problem sealing these corners. It's a place with lots of movement both thermal and power loading with imperfect part alignment. Consider that the head and manifold mate at an angle and both are expanding and contracting with temperature changes while the block and head are squirming around with combustion loads that want to blow the head off as much as push the piston down, plus the dynamic couple within the block trying to rip the banks apart.

Bogie

Ok, thanks for the info. So, you're a proponent of using the end seal gaskets? The majority of folks seem to prefer a bead of sealant on its own?
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Old 09-15-2008, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by v8hed
Ok, thanks for the info. So, you're a proponent of using the end seal gaskets? The majority of folks seem to prefer a bead of sealant on its own?
Yep, I consider RTV to be something plumbers use, not engine builders.

Bogie
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Old 09-15-2008, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
Yep, I consider RTV to be something plumbers use, not engine builders.

Bogie
Guess I should become a plumber, well there's 25 years of my life gone.
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Old 09-15-2008, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by engineczar
Guess I should become a plumber, well there's 25 years of my life gone.
Typical, you find out what you should have been after it's too late to do anything about it.

I always knew I could be a beer taster if I could just get out of this place.

Now that I've seen Sara Palin go from house wife to Veep candiate in 12 years, I have new vigor that I can get to Watney's after all.

Bogie
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Old 09-15-2008, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
Return oil at each end of the head drains thru the head gasket.

Bogie
Not really... its just a hole in the head that allows oil to passively drain back to the valley. It doesn't seal anything because there is no block material under the head in those areas.
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Old 09-15-2008, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by curtis73
Not really... its just a hole in the head that allows oil to passively drain back to the valley. It doesn't seal anything because there is no block material under the head in those areas.
Actually, I think I already gave on this point that drain back isn't likely to be a problem. But in the bigger picture of aluminum heads on cast iron blocks I like to retorque them a few times, old fashion but it makes me feel better.

However, we've moved on to the excessive use of RTV and how beer tasting is a better choice.

Bogie
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Old 09-15-2008, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
Actually, I think I already gave on this point that drain back isn't likely to be a problem. But in the bigger picture of aluminum heads on cast iron blocks I like to retorque them a few times, old fashion but it makes me feel better.

However, we've moved on to the excessive use of RTV and how beer tasting is a better choice.

Bogie
Yeah... I replied before I realized there was a page 2 and then for some reason I can't find a "delete" button so I was just going to edit it... but you beat me to it

Beer rocks, but has very little application on the inside of an engine. Which is a good thing, because I'm not wasting perfectly good beer on an engine.
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Old 09-15-2008, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by curtis73
Yeah... I replied before I realized there was a page 2 and then for some reason I can't find a "delete" button so I was just going to edit it... but you beat me to it

Beer rocks, but has very little application on the inside of an engine. Which is a good thing, because I'm not wasting perfectly good beer on an engine.
Here, here; I'll drink to that!

Bogie
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2008, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v8hed
Ok, thanks for the info. So, you're a proponent of using the end seal gaskets? The majority of folks seem to prefer a bead of sealant on its own?
The key to making RTV work is making sure all the surfaces are oil free. Use brake cleaner on all 4 surfaces. Spray it on a clean lint free rage and give it a good wipe down. Allow it to dissipate. Don't use carb cleaner it leaves a residue. The amount of RTV you show in your picture looks a bit excessive. The bead should be less than 1/4 inch preferably around 3/16.

GM has been using just RTV for like the last 2 decades. I'm pretty sure they've proved it works.
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