Heads back from machine shop.... pics inside! - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2009, 07:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 389
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Heads back from machine shop.... pics inside!

Hey guys so I finally got my heads resurfaced after my engine exploded and damaged the head surface. This is the link to the original post with pics and a video inside that I posted months ago Blow-by 383 rings not seated? (video inside) . Anyways a couple of the combustion chambers (as you can see in the pics) were damaged pretty bad from piston material. I brought the heads down to a reputibale machine shop and the owner said he sees heads like mine come in all the time with similar damage. He said it will not be a problem they will just take a few thou off the surface and whatever damage is left over will not affect anything. Below are the links to the pics of the head with the most damage AFTER it has been resurfaced.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...n/IMG_5979.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...n/IMG_5980.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...n/IMG_5981.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...n/IMG_5982.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...n/IMG_5983.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...n/IMG_5985.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...n/IMG_5986.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...n/IMG_5987.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...n/IMG_5988.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...n/IMG_5989.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...n/IMG_5990.jpg

As you can see there is still some significant scoring on these chambers in particular. He told me to just get rid of any high spots and it will not affect how the engine runs opposed to if it weren't damaged at all. My concern with all of this is the fact that the majority of damage is in the quench area and if there is a hot spot in this area then the rebuilt engine will detonate and i'll be back to where I am now. What do you guys think judging by the pics I've provided? The guy at the machine shop seems to know his stuff and wouldn't be lying to me I would hope, I just wanted to make sure everyone agrees and that I shouldn't run into any problems with the condition these chambers are in.

Thanks for any help/advice,
Keith
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2009, 08:32 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit
Posts: 105
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Im by far not an expert of cylinder heads but I know mechanical design very well. I wouldn't have even bothered to rework this heads. I would see already issues in sealing the heads to the block with all this deep impacts. I dont know how good they checked this heads but I would also be concerned about structural damages. The one pic shows a nice crack already that for sure will not get better over time. If it would be my heads I would give them to the scrap metal dude. It would hurt me a lot money vise thats for sure but better save then sorry! But thats just me.

Tomi
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2009, 08:33 PM
ericnova72's Avatar
More for Less Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S.W. Lower Michigan
Age: 47
Posts: 7,662
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 10
Thanked 148 Times in 136 Posts
You say they were just resurfaced a few thousands?? Why not more?? You have enough material left next to the edge of the intake valve seat to remove .030-.035" from the deck surface, which will remove virtually all of the damage pits. It will raise the compression ratio, but you will be removing material inside the chamber with a grit roll when you smooth them out anyway and this will minimize the compression gain. They can easily be fixed better than they are now. I personally would not run them as shown in the photo's . Take them back and tell the machinist to cut more, and then also correct the intake flange side to allow a good intake fit with the heavier deck cut.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2009, 08:37 PM
ericnova72's Avatar
More for Less Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S.W. Lower Michigan
Age: 47
Posts: 7,662
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 10
Thanked 148 Times in 136 Posts
I want to add, a good machinist would never let them back out the door looking like that unless the customer said to take the minimum cut or do the job as cheap as possible, even after advising against it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2009, 08:39 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 389
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
There is 0 damage where the gasket lay....... the heads will still seal perfectly. The damage occoured with the engine together so the head gasket protected the sealing surface. I am going to smooth out the high spots you see in the pics but besides that should I be ok? The heads were bought brand new by myself working 9-5...... $1600....... and have under 1000km on them, I have been told by more than one person they can be saved. I would really like not to think I wasted $1600 like that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2009, 08:47 PM
ericnova72's Avatar
More for Less Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: S.W. Lower Michigan
Age: 47
Posts: 7,662
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 10
Thanked 148 Times in 136 Posts
Head should be fine if it passed a pressure or crack test, easily savable, but have the deck cut more to remove the damage.

Let me guess, "hyperpathetic" pistons??
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2009, 08:58 PM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 595 Times in 545 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sexypizzaman
I am going to smooth out the high spots you see in the pics but besides that should I be ok?
Hold off on doing any hand work just yet. Find out how much was removed just now. Add that to anything that was originally removed (if any) when the heads were first built, pre blow-up.

If there's anything left- and take the quench measurement and the available head gasket thicknesses into consideration here- have the decks resurfaced the amount that you can make available.

Only then consider doing the hand work on the damaged areas. And remember to re verify the push rod length and geometry when you are done.

But I believe these heads will be reusable when all's said and done.

Good luck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2009, 09:14 PM
BOBCRMAN@aol.com's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Holly, michigan
Posts: 7,954
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 13
Thanked 218 Times in 207 Posts
Head will be ok to use. I get this type of damage a few times a year. Smooth up the rough spots around the chamber edge and run them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2009, 10:30 PM
4 Jaw Chuck's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Age: 46
Posts: 4,816
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 62 Times in 50 Posts
Nothing wrong with using those heads as they are, the pits will fill up with carbon soon enough anyway. You would be risking far more removing extra deck material to remove what is basically a cosmetic blemish. As long as they MAG out alright (I doubt you will find anything) go ahead and use them. Do what Bob recommends and have fun.

I have to wonder about some of the "advice" given in this post. What crack?
__________________
Outlawed tunes from outlawed pipes
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2009, 10:53 PM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 595 Times in 545 Posts
Anyone remember the stippling that was the deal some years back? It was done sometimes to the combustion chamber, sometimes to the tops of the pistons. You get to try it on the quench surfaces.

Too bad they all don't match- you could be on to something! Instead of singh grooves, you got singh dots.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2009, 04:58 AM
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 

Last journal entry: PICTURE TEST
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: york pa
Age: 52
Posts: 2,795
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
heads

Those heads are fine. I would use them and never give it a second thought. When your around racing engines you see damage like this. I have run heads like this with no issues.

To the person that recommended that the shop should have kept milling them down. The more you remove from that surface the greater the increase in static compression. The Machine hsop was probably smart enough to see that the engine was detonated to death and didn't want to make matters worse.


Keith
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2009, 06:13 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 389
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72
You say they were just resurfaced a few thousands?? Why not more?? You have enough material left next to the edge of the intake valve seat to remove .030-.035" from the deck surface, which will remove virtually all of the damage pits. It will raise the compression ratio, but you will be removing material inside the chamber with a grit roll when you smooth them out anyway and this will minimize the compression gain. They can easily be fixed better than they are now. I personally would not run them as shown in the photo's . Take them back and tell the machinist to cut more, and then also correct the intake flange side to allow a good intake fit with the heavier deck cut.
So if I do have more removed how do I correct the intake flange side to allow a good intake fit? I spoke with the machine shop today and told the guy that he should've removed as much as possible until interference with the intake valve seat....... He started explaining to me he didn't because it messes up the geometry of everything. I can see that by removing say 0.035" from the head deck surface you are also lowering the intake and exhaust bolt holes by that same 0.035" while the intake manifold keeps the same bolt hole positioning. I would much rather have this done proper this time around and not risk a problem in the future due to a hot spot leading to detonation and i'm back where I am now out another $2500. I don't see what the problem would be taking more off if I can correct the geometry with the intake mani and valvetrain/ pushrod length? I can keep my comp. ratio at 9.8:1....... the only 2 things I have right now are the heads and block so if I get more material removed and end up with 70cc chambers and get some dished pistons and end up at 9.8:1 then what is the big problem here?? I think the biggest issue I am facing is how I will properly align the intake with the heads after they have been milled down some more. The heads have 75cc chambers as it is right now so taking that much material off won't make the chambers too small. The guy at the machine shop will do it I am pretty sure he just wants me to understand the issues I will face with the changes in geometry, I think those issues are nothing compared to the issues of this happening again in the future.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2009, 06:17 PM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 595 Times in 545 Posts
FWIW, those look to be nicely done CNC ports and chambers.

With chambers that big, are these are aftermarket heads, if so, this should mean there's plenty of deck to work with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2009, 06:52 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,182
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 292 Times in 289 Posts
In your pics I see a few raised rough edges on the dege of the combustion chamber/deck I would smooth by hand and then run 'em.

Why did this motor get hammered to death ? You need to address and correct the cause.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2009, 07:39 PM
richard stewart 3rd's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 351W rebuild
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: tremont, pa.
Age: 69
Posts: 2,174
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Hi,
I'd use them after I had Keith clean them up, I'm getting lazy.
Rich

Hi Keith hope all is well with you & yours.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AFR or Vortec heads? Cam? rodent Engine 18 06-08-2010 03:50 PM
Need Help finding a Good Machine Shop RoadKing96 Engine 2 12-30-2007 12:46 PM
ticked at machine shop. now what DaSouthWon Engine 24 10-13-2006 04:32 PM
northstar heads (machine shop tom) Rogers Performance Engine 9 06-02-2005 09:39 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.