[MYRIDE]

All good advise Dusty and thanks. I have already designed it with "cheater trusses" over a portion (12') and a wall height of 10' on a stub wall of 12". This will give me a midspan of 13'10" (2" below the 14' bylaw) allowing the use of a hoist. Attic trusses over the remainder for storage. Spoke to a pipe-fitter that will be doing my gas line and he also assured me of the safety and wide usage of this type of plumbing (who knew?). 60,000 BTU Radiant heater should do it. Regarding the "Blue Roof-mate". Is it available locally i.e Rona etc?

Thanks again, Ken

[dustyrustee]

Originally Posted by MYRIDE

All good advise Dusty and thanks. I have already designed it with "cheater trusses" over a portion (12') and a wall height of 10' on a stub wall of 12". This will give me a midspan of 13'10" (2" below the 14' bylaw) allowing the use of a hoist. Attic trusses over the remainder for storage. Spoke to a pipe-fitter that will be doing my gas line and he also assured me of the safety and wide usage of this type of plumbing (who knew?). 60,000 BTU Radiant heater should do it. Regarding the "Blue Roof-mate". Is it available locally i.e Rona etc?

Thanks again, Ken

Ken , roofmate is a trade mark of dow corning I believe....it is the high density styro board...usually colored pink or blue, most building suppliers and lumber yards carry it...it has an insulating factor of R5 per inch of thickness...a 1" thick layer is sufficient...you do want some heat transfer into the earth below slab at any rate so that the ground always remains fully thawed during the winter heating season to preclude frost heave of the floor...so too much insulation is not a good thing...

as for a poly film moisture barrier below the insulation, what really works great are the reinforced plastic shipping tarps that are covering the skids of lumber that stores get....they are really strong and durable....much better than rolled poly film....and best of all, they are free!!....just ask the shipper at rona, home depot, totem or any lumber yard....they toss them out in the trash....

also, a very good way to get a lot of storage space in a small building is to run 4 foot wide pallet racking along one or both walls....then you can have a mezzanine ....deck the upper beams with 3/4" plywood....leaving a headroom height workspace below....

last tip....there are a lot of poor concrete finishers around...try to find a really good one that does large warehouse floors so you get a nice result....the average guys doing home garages usually arent too good....you can find out who the good finishers are by asking the concrete truck drivers....they see the results every day...or go around some construction sites and look at the pours being done...

dont overlook having the finisher trowel in hardener into the surface (comes in bags, applied by throwing on to surface as it is power trowelled)....a minor additional expense but well worth it as the surface will not chip if you drop something heavy on it ....on hammer something on it...

and ask the finisher to give you a polished finish and to spray on a good grade of commercial quality sealant on last....it soaks into the green concrete and then you will never have a problem with oil stains or surface degradation and dusting....

as for grade of concrete, pay a bit more for strong mix....go for the equivalent of 5,000 psi (not sure what the equivalent MPA is, ask the redimix folk)....

and go for a min. 6" average thickness floor....a typical 4" garage slab is too thin...especially if you have a hoist in mind one day....

as for reinforcing, I went with 1/2" rebar on 12 inch centers when I did mine...that was commercial code at the time...

if you are planning a grade beam on perimeter as you mentioned, I would pour the beam and then frame in and roof the structure....then I would pour and finish the floor later so that it is shaded from the sun for a good slow cure without surface crazing....

a good floor is very important in a shop....


good luck....Ian

[boomer]

My new shop is 40'x64' with 12' walls. I just installed a 125,000 BTU, 40' radiant tube heater. I'll have to wait for winter to find out how much it'll cost to run. CHEAP, I hope.

[schnitz]

Originally Posted by boomer

My new shop is 40'x64' with 12' walls. I just installed a 125,000 BTU, 40' radiant tube heater. I'll have to wait for winter to find out how much it'll cost to run. CHEAP, I hope.

If you want CHEAP hot air, locate a politician.

*...Only intended to be a joke...*


In a while, Chet.

[SteveU]

Originally Posted by schnitz

If you want CHEAP hot air, locate a politician.

*...Only intended to be a joke...*


In a while, Chet.

Unfortunately they are anything but cheap, figure in re-election costs & they are the most expensive source of hot air there is. For the guys running the IR tube heaters, do they do a good job of heating things up down to about 0*? Figure if it gets colder than that I'm staying in the house. I have a 40x48x14' shop with 6" of fiberglass insulation and 1/2" insulation board in the walls and probably 12" of cellulose blown in over the ceiling. Would it be better to run one larger tube say 120,000 btu or 2 smaller ones of maybe 60,000 btu for something like this? How many gal of propane do you use over the typical winter keeping your shop warm enough you can use it? When I get these installed will probably keep it around 45-50* & just warm it up when I want to work out there so hopefully it won't be too bad. Getting the lift pretty much did in the tool budget for the year so at this point it is mainly research to find the best option & try and get an idea of cost to operate.

[pmeisel]

Used to spend some time with a guy who ran a boat repair shop, mostly paint and fiberglass work, in Northern Ohio. He had IR tube heaters (2, one on each side of shop) and he could keep it comfortable for glass and paint work all winter.

[75gmck25]

I don't know if it would be a good option for a shop in a cold climate, but here in central Texas it is very common to put the HVAC in the attic and use ceiling mounted vents. The big difference here is that we usually don't need much heat.

My house has a horizontal combination natural gas heat/AC unit in the attic. The gas lines are buried up to the house, then enter the wall and run up to the attic. The attic has pull down stairs (required) so you can reach the unit for maintenance. All the attic ducts are insulated flexible tubing.

In a northern climate you would probably need thicker insulation on the attic ducting, and you need a good blower to push the heat down. However, all the HVAC is out of the way, but still easy to reach for maintenance. The attic is well vented, so there is not much potential for CO2 or natural gas leaks to enter occupied space.

Bruce

[boomer]

My IR heater will be on natural gas. The main line and meter is 10' from the back of my shop.
I have the 125,000 BTU unit installed but I'm thinking of taking it down and putting up 2, 75,000 BTU units in place of the bigger one. Also use 2 t-stats set at different temps.

[dustyrustee]

Originally Posted by boomer

My IR heater will be on natural gas. The main line and meter is 10' from the back of my shop.
I have the 125,000 BTU unit installed but I'm thinking of taking it down and putting up 2, 75,000 BTU units in place of the bigger one. Also use 2 t-stats set at different temps.

I personally think that that would be an excellent idea as far as two seperate heaters go because:

then you would have a back-up unit in case one unit should extinguish or have a breakdown.

especially if you go away for awhile in the wintertime (vacation)...the peace of mind of a back-up would be well worth it...

[SteveU]

Another advantage would be the ability to run the one over the tablesaw in the spring when it starts to warm up & all the moist air comes in to keep it from condensing & causing rust. Thinking if I had 2 tubes I could have them angled a bit where they would at least partially cover the area under the lift when I have a car on it and only have to run the one on the side I'm working on.

[dustyrustee]

Originally Posted by SteveU

Another advantage would be the ability to run the one over the tablesaw in the spring when it starts to warm up & all the moist air comes in to keep it from condensing & causing rust. Thinking if I had 2 tubes I could have them angled a bit where they would at least partially cover the area under the lift when I have a car on it and only have to run the one on the side I'm working on.

in terms of rust prevention....i have a complete machineshop with a lot of very expensive precision machinetools and accessories, cutters, etc. that would surface rust or rust stain with only the slightest exposure to moisture in the air...

walmart sells a spray lube made by Ronson's called multi-lube...beyond being the best penetrating oil i've ever used ever, it drys leaving a very light film that moisture cannot penetrate....use that stuff on your saw and other stuff and you will never have a rust problem ever...that is how i protect my bare metal stuff...one shot and you are good to go...

[SteveU]

Originally Posted by dustyrustee

walmart sells a spray lube made by Ronson's called multi-lube...beyond being the best penetrating oil i've ever used ever, it drys leaving a very light film that moisture cannot penetrate....use that stuff on your saw and other stuff and you will never have a rust problem ever...that is how i protect my bare metal stuff...one shot and you are good to go...

Cool, will have to look for that what section is it in the paint section or automotive? I've used amsoil HD metal protector which works great for storage it dries to a waxy coating just not real good for using the saw without taking it off first. Topcoat works for a while just doesn't seem to last thru the spring warm up & humid air so will try the multi lube.

[dustyrustee]

Originally Posted by SteveU

Cool, will have to look for that what section is it in the paint section or automotive? I've used amsoil HD metal protector which works great for storage it dries to a waxy coating just not real good for using the saw without taking it off first. Topcoat works for a while just doesn't seem to last thru the spring warm up & humid air so will try the multi lube.

here in canada where I am, walmart sells it exclusively and keeps it only in the tools department (not auto or paint)...

I told a friend in new york about this product and he ordered it direct from the RONSON web site...as i recall, he ordered a 5 pack of aerosal cans for $20 and that was shipping included....

ps: i have been doing mechanical work for 40 + yrs now and have never found a penetrating oil as good as this one and i've pretty much tried them all...pretty amazing stuff...cuts right thru and dissolves rust and corrosion quickly...un-seizes just about anything..

and as a metal preservative, the dried film is very light and unoticeable, not waxy and it stays on forever without evaporation or dissolving...

give it a try steve...will be $3.99 well spent for a can!

[dinger]

Originally Posted by 75gmck25

I don't know if it would be a good option for a shop in a cold climate, but here in central Texas it is very common to put the HVAC in the attic and use ceiling mounted vents. The big difference here is that we usually don't need much heat.

My house has a horizontal combination natural gas heat/AC unit in the attic. The gas lines are buried up to the house, then enter the wall and run up to the attic. The attic has pull down stairs (required) so you can reach the unit for maintenance. All the attic ducts are insulated flexible tubing.

In a northern climate you would probably need thicker insulation on the attic ducting, and you need a good blower to push the heat down. However, all the HVAC is out of the way, but still easy to reach for maintenance. The attic is well vented, so there is not much potential for CO2 or natural gas leaks to enter occupied space.

Bruce

This is a great way to heat/cool a home, a little more expensive than outside mounting but much more efficient. No heating of the unit on a roof mount in the summertime when you need things cool, the opposite in the winter. Isolating the unit, using a direct vent type of induction for heat, this is like having the unit in a basement.

Dan

[boomer]

Well I've run my overhead IR heaters for 1 winter now. It only raised the bill about $100 a month. I keep the T-stat at 60 deg. I'm heating 1760 sq ft with a 12 ft cieling. Better than I expected.