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Old 09-24-2008, 10:30 AM
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Heaters (for the garage)

I did not get approved by uncle sam to claim any losses for bad investing. So. Now I need to find alternative heat source for the barn this winter.

Kerosene isn't the ticket like it has been for the past 25 years. Not at $4.xx something/gal.

Electric looks like a good choice.

I checked Harbor Freight and Grangers to see what they listed. The $5,000 and up units look great but then there's that pesky government turning down my request to be repaid for buying stock in Acme Orange Barrel Company (AOBC on the NYSE) you see so many of during the summer months in the northern states.

So the smaller heaters will have to do.

Any one offer an opinion on electric heaters?
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Old 09-24-2008, 10:39 AM
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my $0.02 - - I have never thought that electric heating was in any way an economical way of getting warm - - - I would think that propane/natural gas would be a much more economical solution especially up north where you are.
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:02 AM
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You think kerosene at $4 a gallon is expensive, wait until you heat with electricity . And don't even get me started about heat pumps. Propane or natural gas is the way to go.

Vince
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:19 AM
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If you have any trees on your property wood is a good alternative. Although I would never cut a healthy tree down for fuel - dead wood that is still standing and on the ground- can often heat a barn very cheaply with a small wood burner (careful of the health/fire risk though). I even used to enjoy the exercise of gathering the wood and chopping it for logs.

Whatever method you use insulation is the key to cheap fuel bills.
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:59 AM
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My garage is only 24x24 and is heated by electricity. I do not know the specific cost but it isn't so bad that my wife notices. Last winter I always kept it at the min. thermostat setting, I think 49*, then when I was out there I would have it at 65*.
My unit is a self contained heater/airconditioner, 208V. I don't recall what wattage or BTU it may be but the unit started out on a 12'X60' office trailer. It works great on my garage and as mentioned the wife does not notice the electric bill be abnormally high.
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Old 09-24-2008, 02:39 PM
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the insulation comment was a good one - - - because proper insulation is where you start becoming economical and one thing that no one has mentioned is open flames in a garage or shop - - - caution should be taken there also - - - - I have had great luck in the past with heatpumps but they are NOT economical.
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Old 09-24-2008, 06:58 PM
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Buried Heat

I seen where a guy buried an air pipe 6 feet down with an air inlet, blocked from small animals, in the back yard. You put a small fan in the outlet in the wall of the garage to draw fresh air in to the garage at around 50 something degrees.

Insulating is good, but most of the time you are working with chemicals or welding fumes that you need to vent anyway. There goes your effort to insulate, although it's never a BAD idea.

So bringing in 50 something degree fresh air into the garage keeps it ventilated, cool in the summer, and relatively warm in the winter.

I'd make the pipe zig-zag a bunch of times though instead of running a straight pipe and make it so water can drain.

Steve
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Old 09-24-2008, 07:32 PM
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below the frost line, the ground tempurture is 53* year round.. heat pumps work off this, but they can be innefficent.. I can't see sucking air from 3' down working,
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rj57
I did not get approved by uncle sam to claim any losses for bad investing. So. Now I need to find alternative heat source for the barn this winter.

Kerosene isn't the ticket like it has been for the past 25 years. Not at $4.xx something/gal.

Electric looks like a good choice.

I checked Harbor Freight and Grangers to see what they listed. The $5,000 and up units look great but then there's that pesky government turning down my request to be repaid for buying stock in Acme Orange Barrel Company (AOBC on the NYSE) you see so many of during the summer months in the northern states.

So the smaller heaters will have to do.

Any one offer an opinion on electric heaters?
We need to know some specs first

Shop size, # windows and size, # ext doors and size, insulation thickness walls and ceiling.

The best shop heat gas/electric would be infrared - but they're spendy to purchase - reasonable to run...it's just a better type of heat since it heats the objects instead of the air.

But, for now I cheaped out and bought one of these units for my 22x40 shop. I have 2-12x16 rollups, with 1 exterior Man-door and 1-48x48 window.

Northern Tool - 10000 watt heater



My shop is insulated and this heater does an adequate job - even though the manufacturer thinks its under powered for my shop size.

Personally I prefer it to be around 60-65 while I'm working, and then I'll crank the thermostat up when painting.
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Old 09-30-2008, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
You think kerosene at $4 a gallon is expensive, wait until you heat with electricity . And don't even get me started about heat pumps.
We have a heat pump on the house. It's been there ever since the house was new. (1978) Not that I like heat pumps. I was used to gas heat and a heat pump is just not the same.

My barn is insulated. I used 3.5 inch in the walls and an 8 inch attic blanket in the ceiling. There are 5 windows roughly 30 inches square, one service door and one 16 ft overhead door.

To keep heat from going up to the second floor of the barn (used for storage) I used to spread attic blanket across the opening. But in late 2006 I made a cover out of 3/4 inch plywood someone lost in my yard. A lot easier to move & replace versus the attic blanket.

I thought since we were already heating with electicity a little more wouldn't be that much of an increase in cost?
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Old 09-30-2008, 10:51 AM
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I was just thinking. Since forced air is different versus convection (like my kerosene heater) would less BTUs be okay to use? Afterall, now it's forced air and will cover more space.

My kerosene heater is rated at 26,900 BTUs. Now days you can only find them in 23,000 BTUs.
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Old 09-30-2008, 08:46 PM
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My new shop is rather large, 2560 sq ft. The walls have R-19 ins and the ceiling has R-30 in, no windows, 2 steel insulated entry doors and a 10X10 insulated overhead door.
Last spring I picked up a 40' long,125,000 BTU, Reverberay radiant heater. I got it installed during the summer. So this winter will tell what it does to the gas bill. Hopefully it won't bend it to much.
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Old 09-30-2008, 09:52 PM
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shop heating

MY shop in central utah is very cold in the winter. 40 x 120' ...16 ft walls pre fab metal .. insulation in the roof only... we have a lot of free wood but with the fire going all the time in a free standing stove it was still cold... My nephew built a house in the cold hill country of california, he used 3 100 sections of 10 inch pipe burried 8 foot down that fed into his furnace room. said it worked great in the winter and summer... I spent this summer working on my new wife's farm near yellowstone park. She has 30 x 50 ft cinder block shop that has insulation filled walls and is cool in the summer and was warm with the gas furnace set at 60 last winter THey store produce to sell in grocery stores in the late fall and sometimes until christmas. we are planning to build another cinderblock insulated 48 x 36 building this fall and will use lot of insulation..Another farm building is insulated and they use portable kerosene heaters, she said it was expensive last year and if the stuff doesn't sell soon enough the heating cost eliminates any profit.
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:03 AM
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I would love to own a larger building to store my cars in. Like a 60x90 building would work right now. Insulate it good, add running water (sink, toilet, shower), maybe a cott to nap on, a refridgerator for cool drinks, maybe section part of it off for paint work.

Maybe some day when my ship comes in.
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Old 10-03-2008, 09:11 AM
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energy effecient buildings

I worked on 2 energy savings homes last year. the first one was made from SIP's...Osb wood on the outside and 10 inches of styrofoam in the center of walls. 12 inches in the roof. the panels did not fit well they had wood stud avarage every 4 feet but there were air gaps in the middle even after we put in twice as much spray foam as reccomended. I went back last march and the lady said their heater hadn't been on for 2 weeks. I still needed mine for another month, I worked on a an ICF home last year. STrofoam on the outside and concrete in the middle. that makes more sense...Quad-lock in canada has a new system to make tilt up walls, strofoam panels that you pour concrete over flat on the ground than tilt up the walls with a crane. you can flip the panels to have a concrete interior with the strofoam on the outside then stucco finish the outside. If I could raise the walls with my backhoe I might try building a shop someday. they would be very energy efficient.
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