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Old 03-25-2006, 03:43 PM
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Help! 327 coughs when I shift to 3rd (full load)

Help! My 327 has a 262 cam, and edelbrock performer, edelbrock 1406 carb with all stock jets and rods. I assume my problem is in the ignition. I have offroad needles and seats, and have played with the float level, but I am back to the distributer. I have a malory which seems to have about 40 degrees of advance. They are vacuum only I guess right? there is no mechanical advance. I have set the timing so that at full advance I have 35 degrees. I have to use the full vacuum side of the carb on the dist to make it run this way so I have enought timing at idle. It seems to help to add more timing, but it still just bogs and coughs under load. Any other ideas??? HELP!!!
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Old 03-25-2006, 03:58 PM
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Im using the factory HEI distrib, I set the timing to 20 degree's initial and plugged the vacuume ports, for some reason my 327 runs better without the vacuume advance... Its rock steady to 7,000.. I would also make sure (if you have an electric choke) its opening up. GL!

2wld4u
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Old 03-25-2006, 04:05 PM
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with 40 degrees total in dist. setting at -5 inital would give 35 total-
-5 is W A Y too little advance to be using at idle...no way-
if it was me I would shoot for around 15 to 20 inital and about 38 total...
retarded timing at low rpm will make a engine a real dog....(it dosent do much as far as making the cam sound good either)
I dont know but I bet there is a mech advance under there somewhere ,if so try the old trick of leaving the vac adv disconnected and check your timing at inital AND total and shoot for these numbers....if not look for a different distributor....
P.S. -
38 total may be a little much ,or maybe just right....
what model# mallory do you have ?
DR

Last edited by Haulin327; 03-25-2006 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 03-25-2006, 05:15 PM
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The Mallory part number is 48201A, and there is also a C.A.R.B number that says D 70 33. My buddy had an HEI sitting at home that I could drop in. Different plug wires though, but I think he has them too.
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Old 03-25-2006, 05:33 PM
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is this a chevy 327 ?
I looked for part# at summit online and didnt find the #
but I dont think they make a vac adv only dist-
does dist have adjustable advace features...?
if it does,maybe adjust so it has minimum vac adv and use mostly mech....
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Old 03-25-2006, 08:18 PM
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Yes Chevy. I don't see that it has any mechanical advance, and the vacuum is not really adjustable. There are different holes in the distributer plate that the pin could be moved to, but I can't get the pin out. I think I will try the HEI. I don't think this Mallory is bad, I just thinkwith my smaller cam and tons of vacuum, that its just too much advance. I also am going to lean my carb out a bit, because I'm taking it to Moab next Friday and it is about 7000 ft elevation. The thing runs pretty rich here at 800 ft, so it will be a little richer there. The HEI's dont require a resistor right? I just hook up the hot wire directly to 12 volts with no resister?
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Old 03-25-2006, 09:38 PM
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It sounds like your vacuum advance might be hooked in to the wrong vacuum port. also make sure that the choke is opened all the way at operating temp's. Mallory does not make a vacuum advance only distributer that i know of, you might look under the rotor inside the distributer cap for the mechanical advance system. If you can have the distributer run on a distributer curve machine and make sure that the advance curve is correct.
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Old 03-25-2006, 11:52 PM
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NO the choke isn't sticking. I'm dumb, but I'm not that dumb! There is no mechanical, its the old style small cap distrib so there is nothing under the roter, it just has the small rotor that slides down on the shaft. I don't have time to take it to a curve machine, I'm going rock crawling in Moab on Friday, and was busy in the paint booth today painting the hardtop. When i got home tonight I threw the HEI I had in, roughed in the timing and wired up 12 volts. I just need plug wires, which I will get in the AM and see what happens! I will let you all know. Thanks for the info!
Tom
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Old 03-25-2006, 11:58 PM
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the pins are likely to be the very adjustment you are looking for...figure out what adjustment gives you the least adv with the vac can....
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Old 03-26-2006, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haulin327
the pins are likely to be the very adjustment you are looking for...figure out what adjustment gives you the least adv with the vac can....
I agree. A pin hole thats further to the outside of the base plate would not get pulled as far by the vacuum can. I took it all apart but I couldn't get the pin out. It looks like just a brass pressed in pin but I couldn't get it or the baseplate out. I could get the pin to spin a bit with pliers, but couldn't get it to pull out. I had to quit before I totally mangled it. I have more faith in getting the HEI going. We'll see...........

Also, I don't need any special adapter to put my square bore ebrock 1406 on my spreadbore ebrock performer do I? Is just the gasket enough? A big intake leak would raise some havoc!
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Old 03-26-2006, 07:32 AM
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HEI's are the bomb! Why do we mess around with anything else on a SBC?? I stuck the HEI in, installed the wires, set it up so the #1 tower was slightly CCW of the rotor at TDC, and it fired so quick it was rediculous! I think the spark might have been weak on that Mallory. Plus, the HEI's don't have such a rediculous timing curve. I was able to set my initial at 12 degrees without vacuum and hook up the vacuum to the ported line (the one with no vacuum at idle), and I get 35 degrees at half throttle. Not sure when it comes in because I don't have a tach on it, but who cares! It runs so good now I'm giddy! Look out Moab here I come!!!! (now I can finish up my roll cage)
Thanks guys!
L8r
Tom
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Old 03-27-2006, 08:19 AM
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I got excited a little too soon! The HEI definately has a hotter spark, and starts easier, and ran so good in the shop that I was sure it was fixed. Took it out and drove it later yesterday, and IT STILL BOGS AND/OR STUBLES UNDER LOAD!!! Here's what I've done so far:
Replaced mallory ignition with HEI
set timing anywhere from 8 initial to 17 initial.
Run with and without vacuum advance
Had the vacuum advance on full vacumm and ported vacuum
changed the plugs (they were pretty black)
Changed the wires
Cleaned out the acellerator pump well and passage as it had rust down in it (edelbrock 1406)
Went 1 step leaner on both the primary jets and the metering rods
adjusted and readjusted float level and float drop
some of these things helped a little with the stumble but no matter what I do it is always there. I have a holley 650 on a Pontiac 326 that runs great there, and I have a Marine Quadrajet on my 383 boat, which runs as good on my 383 as it did on my original 350. I think I'll grab one of those (both in storage units different parts of the city) and see if they help.
Any other suggestions???? This is in an offroad built Toyota FJ40 which probably weighs about 4500 lbs, and is going to Moab THIS FRIDAY!!! HELP PLEASE??? (ok that was a little desperate sorry)
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Old 03-27-2006, 03:33 PM
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Im thinking the carb may be the culprit, hard to say, without being there..... If you have another carb around Id try a differnt one just to make sure.. If indeed the problem is fuel related you need to try a differnt carb, check your fuel pump, filter, lines etc.. you say your getting good spark, now make sure your getting plenty of fuel... That carb shouldnt be toooooo big, but a 1 " spacer might help, Im running a standard bore 327 S/J with 220cc runner heads, and a 800 DP holley, and I can assure you I have no bog.. I do have 4.10 rear gears, 4000 stall and 2800 lbs, and considering the weight your at, you need to address the gear ratio you have and the tire size, you may simply need more gear... Im shooting in the dark and trying to cover every possible angle, Im mean you might find you had a stopped up fuel filter, maybe that simple, but you could get as deep as valve adjustment..

If I were in your shoes I would check, and check somemore, even though you changed dizzy's, you could still be experiancing ignition breakdown, check all fuel related items, firing order, ignition componets etc.. then if ou still have the problem then all us hotrodders will help you try and figure out whats going on hopefully in time for your big outing..


2wld4u
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Old 03-27-2006, 04:02 PM
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If you put in a 350 crank all your engine problems will go away.




just kidding.

Coughing/back-firing out the carb is a lean condition. Back-firing out the exhaust is a rich condition.

Edelbrock carbs are junk. They make great intakes but should be ashamed of themselves for building a carb like that. Put on a Q-jet or Holley.

Mallory unilites have mechanical advance. In-fact, the mechanical advance is adjustable on the Mallory. The mechanical advance is the spring loaded feel on the rotor when you twist the rotor my hand. But I had nothing but trouble with those distributors and now use a HEI's with MSD kits of all my chevys.
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Old 03-27-2006, 11:37 PM
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I got it! You were right it was too lean. I had even gone 1 step leaner with jets and rods to try to fix the problem initially, which of couse did not. After several of you convinced me that it was too lean, I went to a '25' setting on the Edelbrock chart which is like 2.5 steps richer in the power mode and 1 step richer in the cruise mode, basically it amounted to the .098 jets and the .073 X .037 rods (primary only). This made a HUGE difference.

And yes i agree the EBrock carbs are JUNK! They should be embarrased. I was close to putting the Holley I had on my 326 Poniac on, but it didn't get that far yet. I think I'm fine now. I might be too rich for the 7000 ft elevation at Moab, but if so, its just a metering rod change, which I can make now in about 4 minutes, so thats no problem. I now know the difference between to rich and too lean! I am still a little miffed about distributer advance though. Both of the distro's I have had in this rig had over 30 degrees of advance. If I set it to 10 at idle with the vacuum line plugged, it gives me 40 or more at 3000RPM with the vaccum back on.

I have 3 or 4 old Q-Jets laying around, i think when I get back from Moab, i am going to tear them down and make a good one and use it in the 40. I have always had good luck with Q-Jets! Plus i understand they work quite well off road. i know the Edelbrock are TERRIBLE off road, but I did put an offroad needle and seat in this one and plug the fuel passage above the float bowls that allows gas to go between the 2 float bowls, so we will see how far of camber it will still run when we get there!

Thanks again guys for you help!
Tom
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