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Old 10-03-2005, 08:16 PM
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Help with batts going dead

hi guys

First off I just went out to look at my motor and the Starting BATT is warm/hot the pickup has been off for 5-6 hours IS THIS BAD?

now the on going problem
it is a 88 Chevy with a 5.7. It has a dual battery setup I am using a relay to isolate the batteries(normally off) My starting batt is a exide orbital

I have noticed it seems like the starter will click a split second before it will actually cranks over. Starter has been replaced and it still will click prior to starting

I can go out after the pickup as been off for a couple of hours and the starter will click. If I work the key START TO RUN real fast a few times it will crank no problem as if the battery is charged fine. If the pickup sits for about 5-6 day it will draw the battery down to the point it will not start.

same situation as above. If I turn the relay on and connect the batteries it will start no problem

I have disconnected the ground wire and put a test light in line. when I connect it the light will light up about 50% then fade OFF all in about 1 to 2 seconds. I have traced the draw to one of my amplifiers Is that normal? that is the only draw I can find

With my relay should I run a charging wire from the alternator to each battery?


thanks

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Old 10-03-2005, 08:43 PM
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many aspects...

Doc here,

Many questions here and I'm not sure I'm clear on what you asked..BUT:

If you have a Battery that is hot after 5 to 6 hours sit time, you have a massive problem, a high current short has occurred at that battery that you need to isolate and repair.

It could also be an internal short on the battery, heating it up while it sits.

Either way you need to address that problem first and foremost, Place a DMM between the Positive cable and The battery terminal and read the draw..should at no time ever exceed 0.02 amp with the system off. If so, start pulling fuses and see if it goes away, If not, disconnect the alternator and see if it goes away..one of those will be your source problem.

Are you running a Battery Isolator? If no, you will always have one dead battery in a duel system, The charge media will not charge them as "Both" or one then top, then the other, but only to the path of most resistance (a single battery with the highest internal resistance, then cut off The charge as good....

Check your cables for good clean tight connections..And check your ground (BIG offender in this type situation) Be sure it it as follows:

Your ground should be set up as such,

The battery cable ground to any handy bolt at or near the starter.

From there, get a battery cable that has 2- 3/8 ring terminals on it ($6 bucks at wally mart or auto parts place) and ground that to the frame..

From that engine block ground at the starter, Run 2 #10 wires, the first to the firewall, and the second to the alternator ground lug or mount bolt...

USE proper Star washers, Sheet-metal screws / bolts and locks, and burnish ALL the paint and grease from the grounding areas..this will give you a rugged reliable grounding system that will most likely outlast the car...and will most likely address your starter issues...

If your getting an amp light in an "Off" state, you need to move the power wire to a Switched source, preferably through a relay so that the circuit is off with the key...as it is you are drawing current just sitting parked...

Doc
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Old 10-03-2005, 09:04 PM
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I am not using a isolator but a SR200 relay.

So with a relay rather then a isolator it will only charge one battry, correct?

what isolator would you recomend? I am not sure what i would need? I will check the draw tomarrow

with a isolator will it draw bolth batts down while it is parked?

thanks you have been alot of help
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Old 10-03-2005, 09:46 PM
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Isolator

Doc here,

With the switching relay, IF it switches the whole system to that battery, It will charge that battery alone..not the other unless it is hooked up as common to both systems, then only the battery with the most Resistance, (usually the draw battery)

As to the Isolator, go to the Local RV place and look at the various systems they offer, look for max current (should be equal or higher than your alternator)and how it operates with regards to your application..and of course price range..The sales people should be able to help you there...

With an Isolator there should BE NO draw in an "OFF" state..only when the system is running..(some exceptions apply, such as auto detect switching, but an isolator with a brain will run BIG $$$ , so I doubt you will end up with one..)

Address that heating battery right away, not only is it annoying , but it is dangerous!! That battery can gas and when you hit start, the internal spark can cause it to explode , with the force of about 4 sticks of dynamite!! throwing acid soaked shrapnel everywhere..

When working on it BE CAREFUL..wear eye protection, an apron, gloves and DO NOT jar or shake it, this can cause it to explode...

Doc
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Old 10-03-2005, 09:52 PM
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why is it gitting so hot? is it because there is a draw?
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Old 10-03-2005, 10:09 PM
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Heat

Doc here

It is getting Hot BECAUSE there is a MASSIVE short on it..either system induced or internal (to the battery) Short..

To heat a battery, Imagine Cranking on the starter non stop for 5 minutes..that is how much current is being drawn from that battery...

You should have blown the fuse links with that massive of a short ...

UNLESS you didn't install them..and If not..your headed for a fire that you will not able to extinguish with ANYTHING so long as there is CURRENT to feed the fire..the result: a burned out rod...

unlike petro~chemical or other fires that can be smothered or drowned, an Electrical fire will burn as long as the battery will provide current to it, until the source explodes..no matter what you do to try to put it out, it will flare up somewhere else (melting insulation) until the battery is disconnected or explodes the fire will burn...and at about 2000 amps,(2 battery's) can burn right through the front clip of the car and frame (It takes less current for a cutter to do so..)

So first priority Should be find and fix the short, then add fuse links To the system.

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Old 10-03-2005, 10:24 PM
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I am sure I don't have a bad shot. I took a test light between the post and the lead and it did not stay lit continually

here is the relay i have

http://www.stingerelectronics.com/te...%20DIAGRAM.pdf
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Old 10-03-2005, 10:54 PM
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Short

Doc here,

Sorry my adobe isn't working..

IF you have a heating battery, after 5 to 6 hours sit time you have a MASSIVE short...(slightly less than it would take to start a fire..) But , don't take my word for it..Call around to various Auto electric shops in your area and present the facts as you have here..they'll tell you the same thing..And probably to go disconnect the battery now before something happens...

Battery's don't even get that hot during Charge/Discharge Cycles, they do get warm but not hot...If yours is getting hot just sitting you have a MAJOR problem that can lead to explosion/fire issues..and I don't mean down the road, like tonight, or tomorrow, or the next time it is gassed and stressed..

I did a dissertation on this very thing in one of these posts, most guys don't think because its 12 volts it can't be that bad...Until it explodes and bursts into fire on them..which was my answer to the guy's post..the BRAND new battery blew up on him while hooking up the positive cable..

Did you know that total instanious current from both your battery's is 1875 AMPS MORE than your whole house draws from the power pole?? It Is!!...and that current can do a lot of damage...

If you could strike and hold a spark and not blow up the battery, you COULD cut up a car in a very short time, FRAME and all...

Check it out..Don't blow it off or I can almost guarantee you regret it very soon..

Doc
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Old 10-03-2005, 11:09 PM
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I went ouyto disconnect the batt and now it is cool to the touch,

is it pulling to much juice from the batt when it is running and heating up the batt? what would cause that? or could it still be a short in the system

here is the relay on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stinger-200-Amp-...QQcmdZViewItem
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Old 10-03-2005, 11:26 PM
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heat

Doc here,

When it is running under full charge load warmth is normal to a small degree..HEAT is not,

If you are drawing heat you have a problem , apparently in a switched circuit, (which might explain the lamp test appearing normal at no load or "OFF" condition..)

ARE you sure it is HOT not just warm? and not from a header or other source? If that's the case you'll need to relocate it...

Doc
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Old 10-03-2005, 11:45 PM
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the heat would come from the batt itself the headers are ceramic coated and really don't get that hot

as far as the battery it is warmer then past batts I have had the place where I work has a inferred thermometer next time it happens I will see how warm it actually is
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Old 10-05-2005, 08:01 PM
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I took the batt back to where I bought it a year ago and they replaced it. the new one seems to work fine

but I am still noticing the starter clicks a split second prior to starting.... why?

I have replace the starter and then I replace the standard solenoid with a Heavy duty solenoid. all connections seem to be tight

should I look at getting one of those earth grounding kits off ebay?
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Old 10-06-2005, 12:22 AM
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previous info...

Quote:
Originally Posted by docvette
Doc here,

Many questions here and I'm not sure I'm clear on what you asked..BUT:

Check your cables for good clean tight connections..And check your ground (BIG offender in this type situation) Be sure it it as follows:

Your ground should be set up as such,

The battery cable ground to any handy bolt at or near the starter.

From there, get a battery cable that has 2- 3/8 ring terminals on it ($6 bucks at wally mart or auto parts place) and ground that to the frame..



From that engine block ground at the starter, Run 2 #10 wires, the first to the firewall, and the second to the alternator ground lug or mount bolt...

USE proper Star washers, Sheet-metal screws / bolts and locks, and burnish ALL the paint and grease from the grounding areas..this will give you a rugged reliable grounding system that will most likely outlast the car...and will most likely address your starter issues...


Doc
Doc here,

As said before...

Don't waste your money on that stuff..for a system you can build better (above system) yourself...for under $20 bucks...

By now you probably deduced, throwing parts at it, unadvised, is money better spent going into the tank..

With fuel rapidly approaching $4.00 a gallon AND soon as the Texas refineries go into TURNAROUND mode..$5.00 a gallon...

Figure how much spent on new starter, new solenoid, and new battery ( must have been at least a prorate on it) THAT didn't cure or even help the problem...

You could be filling the tank..don't know about yours but my Vette , when it hits $5.00 a gallon will cost me $150.00 a tank to fill, AND in as little as I commute, will only last for 4 daily trips..or 2 TANKS a week..Think twice before spending money you don't need to spend!

Also the click could be mechanical misalignment..

Doc
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Last edited by docvette; 10-06-2005 at 12:41 AM. Reason: added info
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