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Old 09-16-2007, 09:17 PM
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Help With Budget 350 Build

I have a 74 Camaro LT (plain LT not a Z) with the stock 76cc headed 350 and a BW T10 4 Speed and 373 posi. it has headers and dual exhaust. PS. PB. no A/C. This winter I wanted to pull the engine & tranny. then clean up the engine bay and paint it ect. I have a lakewood Scatter Shield and block saver plate. and was planning a dual center force clutch, a new set of headers and a new malroy distributor. the BW T10 is gona be gone thru when the engines out.

I would like to get a yr plus out of this budget build, ( then the plan is in a year, a complete fresh balanced 350 with some thing like a solid 10:5.1 CR or 11:0.1CR with 425 or 450 HP SBC OR maybe in a year, a fresh BBC as I have a fresh set of GM 049 heads, machine shop fresh and new springs )

with this budget 350 I would like to get 375 + hp or even 400HP if I can out of this build. this is just a budget SBC I can go out and give hell to and enjoy, and I won't have a bunch of cash in. then I can kinda see what a SBC with some power in this 74 Camaro is like, and then I can decide if in the future I want a SBC or a BBC.

what my question is: what do you think of putting a fresh set of 062 vortec heads on my 350 and cam and a vortec intake on my stock 350 bottom end ?
wheres Vortec heads in place of 76cc heads put my CR ? ( the vortec heads are machine shop fresh and good for 550 lift. my intake is 1500 to 6500 RPM range)

I know this vortec heads on a older bottom end isn't the best Idea, but the bottom end is holding 30 to 35psi oil pressure warm and 55psi cold. the 350 has got to be loose, and with a cam and a set of vortec heads it should rap good into the 6500RPM range, witch is prob all this old bottom end should go. cash wise, I can't do a complete rebuild right now. plus if in a year my plans change completely I don't want that much cash in this SBC.

what cam ? what carb ? (I have a Qjet on it now) to get 375 + HP ?

or with this stock bottom end is 375 + HP that far of a reach ? tell me what you think.


I've been reading here for a while and know theres a lot of knowledge and help here. thanks for helping as I know it's my 1st post.

Sparx74

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Old 09-16-2007, 11:13 PM
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Replace your stock GM 76cc heads with your vortecs.
Get a Edelbrock Performer manifold for vortecs or a Professional Products
Cyclone (vortec) manifold PN52007
www.professional-products.com

Use Crane camshaft and lifter set #113802 (HMV278)
www.cranecams.com
Unless your vortecs have been upgraded for screw in studs and guide plates you will need a set of '87 up self guided style rocker arms.
I'm assuming your vortecs have been upgraded with some sort of performance valve spring capable of .500" valve lift.
Install the vortec heads using a thin steel .015" head gasket felpro#1094
Your present cr with factory dished pistons is about 8.5:1. your new cr will be 9.4-9.5:1. With vortec heads and the .015" gasket Just right.
Install your vortec intake manifold using felpro #1255 manifold gasket.
You'll need a set of Centerbolt valve covers and cover gaskets.
www.proformparts.com
Your stock Qjet carb will work just fine. You can play with the Qjet secondary metering rods and hanger using Edelbrock Qjet service parts. I recomend a hi flow .149" edelbrock Q jet needle and seat assembly.
It may want slightly richer sec metering rods.

Althou Mallory certainly makes good stuff, I recomend going with a MSD "ready to run" billut distributor with vacuum advance. This is a ready to rock self contained hi output electronic distributor needing only a 12V power source and a MSD blaster 2 coil. (no external spark box is required)
It has a fully adjustable ignition advance curve and all the spark power you'll ever want. It will work fine on any future big block chev as well.

You won't need to rev this motor to 6500rpm for best performance. 5800-6000 will be plenty of rpm. Vortec heads are all about port velocity and torque. Excessive rpm is not nessessary with these heads and the Crane HMV278 camshaft.

There is nothing stopping you from doing a simple minor cheapo rebuild on the bottom end. Just tear it down, clean up the stock pistons with oven cleaner give the block a good scrubbing, hone the cylinders to reestablish a cylinder wall cross hatch pattern , send the crank out to be turned 10-10 and reassemble the bottom end with new 10-10 bearings and Hastings stock rebuilder rings and a gasket set. Don;t forget a new timing chain and gearset. Stock replacement will do find. Could even burp the wallet for new oil pump. Not that hard.
Now you don't have to worry about the bottom end.
Your local automotive machine shop can set you up with the re ring kit.
Or you can buy an economical rebuider re-ring kit form a place like Summit Racing. A couple hundred bucks tops.
Probabily won't need that Big block after this.

Your homework is here

Make sure ya get 'er aimed where ya want to go when ya rug it....

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 09-16-2007 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 09-17-2007, 04:26 PM
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I was thinking of upgrading for screw in studs and guide plates and some roller tip rockers. I have a set of '87 up self guided style rocker arms. yes my vortecs have been upgraded with some performance valve spring capable of .500" valve lift. I have a couple sets of center bolt valve covers.

I will look in to that MDS Distributor.

I had thought about the budget re build. but I would end up with having the machine shop hot tanking and cleaning my block & reconditioning my rods and rebalancing the rotating assembly, and have them hone it.

I like the Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap intake $230 it's 1500 to 6500 RPM

and I need a new set of headers, prob just some summit headers for now.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

wheres that head and cam combo put the HP ?


thanks
Sparx74
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Old 09-17-2007, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparx74

wheres that head and cam combo put the HP ?


thanks
Sparx74
Read the article.
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:35 AM
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I wouldn't use vortecs. By the time you get them machined and buy center bolt valve covers, a vortec intake, and vortec rocker arms, it will cost more than a set of AFR's. And then you will be limited to vortec style heads.

Also the rpm air gap is a bad idea if you plan on driving the car when it is below 50 degrees. Get the regular rpm intake.

On a budget, I would get a new set of 200cc dart iron eagles with straight plugs and 64cc. Install a compcam 280H with a RPM intake. Rebuild the block with flat top KB Hyper pistons. Get the rotating assembly balanced and bore with torque plates.

I would also use a HEI distributor with a MSD conversion kit and a 750 holley (3310). A q-jet would work but would need smaller rods.

Should make 10:1 -10.5:1, depending on the block deck. And will make 400 to 425hp.
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Old 09-18-2007, 10:01 AM
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350 Rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
I wouldn't use vortecs. By the time you get them machined and buy center bolt valve covers, a vortec intake, and vortec rocker arms, it will cost more than a set of AFR's. And then you will be limited to vortec style heads.

Also the rpm air gap is a bad idea if you plan on driving the car when it is below 50 degrees. Get the regular rpm intake.

On a budget, I would get a new set of 200cc dart iron eagles with straight plugs and 64cc. Install a compcam 280H with a RPM intake. Rebuild the block with flat top KB Hyper pistons. Get the rotating assembly balanced and bore with torque plates.

I would also use a HEI distributor with a MSD conversion kit and a 750 holley (3310). A q-jet would work but would need smaller rods.

Should make 10:1 -10.5:1, depending on the block deck. And will make 400 to 425hp.
the heads on my build will be vortecs as I have them and don't have much in them. I have the vortec heads done self guided style rocker arms. my vortecs have been upgraded to performance valve spring capable of .550" valve lift, except I think I'm gona take em back for screw in studs and run guide plates and roller tip rockers. I have valve covers and self guided style rocker arms. by 50 degrees it will prob be parked for the winter, unless I take off on a early cool morning. I'm still open on the carb.

F-BIRD'88
the budget rebuild is a option but with the heads I might be able to do a complete build for around $1500 dollars with some figuring. especially if this 1PRM 2 bolt block is suitable for 400HP with out splayed caps.

I did read the article, but got side tracked on junk yard crawl LOL. BUT 400 + Hp and 228 TQ is what I'm after. I did some searching and found some nice rods for fair money. hypereutectic pistons aren't bad money. or these TRW Forged .30 over pistons $280 summit # TRW-L2256F30 I did a search and on this site I found 4340 I beam rods $159 a set.
http://www.ohiocrank.com/street.html this Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap Intake Manifold is $230

so I may just go through the entire engine. I have setting in the shop a 1 piece rear main complete 350 (it's a 2 bolt main block,
#10054727...350...86-up...2 ..one piece rear seal, some "Made in Canada"
) I could build it and drop in when its complete. (and then I will still have my 350 left hand dip stick block, I don't know if the 350 in my 74 Camaro is a 2 or 4 bolt main) you think this 2 bolt block is suitable for 400 HP ? I don't think it's set up for a roller cam, I can't swing the price of a roller cam is out of my budget. is there a gasket and ring & bearing rebuild kit with oil pump & timing gear & chain ? (so $160 rods $280 pistons and $ ? for crank & block machine work. plus timing chain & gears and oil pump and $200 or so for balance of rotating assembly)

let me know what you think

thanks so much
Sparx74
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Old 09-18-2007, 10:01 AM
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Vortecs even with all the modifications nessessary to get them ready to rock are about 1/2 the cost of new AFR's.
They will make 425+hp in unported form with the right cam and manifold.
Porting will get you more power, still at less cost than new AFR's.
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Old 09-18-2007, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
Vortecs even with all the modifications nessessary to get them ready to rock are about 1/2 the cost of new AFR's.
They will make 425+hp in unported form with the right cam and manifold.
Porting will get you more power, still at less cost than new AFR's.

AFRs would be great, but it would not be a budget build with $1400 heads.


thanks
Sparx74
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Old 09-18-2007, 10:15 AM
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Spar: you indicated that keeping a tight budget is a nessessity.
This complete rebuild kit is all you need for a street motor. The 2bolt block is fine.
Either resize you rods or buy these GM rods

This motor will never need to see much more than 6000rpm. No need to get carried away. You can do this with all machining for less than $1500.
Have your machinist bore and hone the block to fit the pistons in the kit.
Have him press the new or resized rods on to the new pistons. Have him install the new cam bearings in the block. Do all the rest, assembly and checking, yourself at home.
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Old 09-18-2007, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
Spar: you indicated that keeping a tight budget is a nessessity.
This complete rebuild kit is all you need for a street motor. The 2bolt block is fine.
Either resize you rods or buy these GM rods

This motor will never need to see much more than 6000rpm. No need to get carried away. You can do this with all machining for less than $1500.
Have your machinist bore and hone the block to fit the pistons in the kit.
Have him press the new or resized rods on to the new pistons. Have him install the new cam bearings in the block. Do all the rest, assembly and checking, yourself at home.


yes I said that keeping a tight budget is a nessessity. (thats my problem I can't quit, I keep going till it's all new. I keep thinking for not much more) but for not much more I might as well go clear through it. so the 1PRM 2 bolt main block is suitable for this build ? you think the rods you posted for $259 is better than these 4340s for $159 ? http://www.ohiocrank.com/street.html what CR are the pistons in the summit kit ? I just through the $1500 number out there. I will prob have the machine shop zero deck the block and balance the rotating mass, bore & finish hone it. and press pistons or rods. even with a complete build instead of a budget build you would recommend that cam kit ?

thanks
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Old 09-18-2007, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
Vortecs even with all the modifications nessessary to get them ready to rock are about 1/2 the cost of new AFR's.
They will make 425+hp in unported form with the right cam and manifold.
Porting will get you more power, still at less cost than new AFR's.
Not when you consider the need to buy special rockers, valve covers, and intake manifold to run those heads. However, in this case he seems to have most of what he needs. But the intake is expensive and the screw in studs will add a few hundred more. Then he will be boxed in to use only vortec style heads because of all the investment made to use the head. Furthermore, the vortec head is only 165cc. There are only a few vortec style heads over 180cc and they cost the same or more than a standard head.

And the 425 hp vortec engine would be making 475 with a set of afr's.

Vortec seem like a good deal to start with but ends up costing about the same. Using vortec's doesn't make sense, especially if you already have the rockers, intake, and valve covers for the regular style heads.

Besides, AFR's are worth a few extra dollars for a much better head made of aluminum that can use all the stuff that you already own.
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Old 09-18-2007, 01:10 PM
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screw in studs are going to cost $200 dollars ? I thought the machine shop said $90 or so with studs and guide plates were $19. I already have the rockers that were on the vortecs and I have a set of rockers off a set of 350 TBI heads, now the intake I need, and valve covers I have 2 sets of factory GM black center bolt covers. my 88 P/U has a nice set of chrome center bolt covers on it I could rob.


454C10, I can see your not a vortec head lover. but I did not give much for these, and they were checked for cracks. and only 1 head is cracked.


J/K ya

and I have these and if I go BBC I will sell heads intake and V covers as a complete top end kit. I see them bring fair money on evilbay. or I can sell them and try a different SBC Head later on too.

if you guys think this 2 bolt 1PRM block will be ok, I will order my parts a little each month. so I can have everything in 3 months then, then have my heads setup for screw in studs. then get all my block machine work done. theres a good machine shop here in Hastings Ne. then I can assemble in march, as I still need a clutch and to get the BW T10 gone through.

I will start a parts list with prices as best I can...


thanks
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Old 09-18-2007, 01:32 PM
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Vortecs are OK. I considered using them in the past, until I added up all the little things. Plus vortecs are prone to crack (as you know already)

Yes, 2 bolts can handle a bunch of power. I run a 7000 rpm, 11:1 cr, 450hp sbc and spray a 200 shot of n20 on top of that with 2 bolts and KB hyper pistons

On a street/strip car I would recommend KB hyper pistons. Forged piston are noisy, have a lot of blow by when cold, and wear out quicker.

Studs and plates will cost between $25 and $65 +plus shipping, depending on the brand. $90 for machine work to install the studs is a real good deal.

Vortec's flow poorly on the exhaust side so use a cam with more exhaust than intake duration.

Sounds like you will have a cool car no matter which heads you use. Good luck with your build.
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Old 09-18-2007, 03:16 PM
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you think the newer 1PRM 2 bolt block is the same as the older LH dip stick 2 bolt main blocks ? (course I don't know if whats in my car is a 2 or 4 bolt main) I want to end up with a BBC in this Camaro. but figure my son or I can use the rest of this 350 up in a yr or so in a 4 wheel drive pu. I have them fresh 049 GM BBC Castings. but I like the Canfield & AFR aftermarket BBC Heads.





thanks
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Old 09-18-2007, 03:59 PM
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just what pistons do I want so when I zero deck my block and a .40 head gasket I end up at .40 quench ? I'm wanting to get 9.7:1CR or 10.1CR


a brand name and piston # would be appreciated

or is there a good piston in that kit ? can I get a piston in that kit in the 9.7:1CR or 10.1CR Range ?

this kit
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku



so whats the opinion on these rods ?
http://www.ohiocrank.com/street.html

thanks

Last edited by Sparx74; 09-18-2007 at 04:05 PM.
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