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Old 12-02-2005, 08:58 PM
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Help on buffing

I need some help on buffing. I have read everything i can get my hands on but i still am not getting the finish I am looking for. I am working with a hood that I shot 6 coats of Val spar Ac2000 clear on and planed on buffing it to a deep shine. Well after wet sanding it with 2000 and a lot of water I got it very smooth. Then I use my Makita 9227 with the white foam 3M 05723 "3M Perfect it System" using Extra cut compound until dry and semi shine then on to the black 05725 "Perfect it" with 3M swirl mark remover. It looks ok at that point then I go over it with the 3m final glaze using the black foam.
After all that I still see a light white glaze and some very little scratches.

I alway apply the 3M stuff with a clean rag and wipe it all over what I going to do, then with the buffer set on 600 rpm and go over the hole area then slowly increase the speed up to 2400 until the foam pad starts to grab then I stop.

What is going wrong. Is there a specific speed I should run the buffer at from the start to end of each compound?

Any help or links would be very appreciated.

Thanks

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Old 12-02-2005, 09:46 PM
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Can't help you alot but I asked the same basic question a while back. go to page 3 of this forum and click on "Need finishing how to's. I got alot of good pointers from the guys. Cheers.
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Old 12-02-2005, 10:53 PM
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Hi I had asked this question in a earlier Thread on single stage paint.

Here is a reply I received from Milo.

================================================== =======

Sanding and polishing single stage follows the same steps as clearcoat except theres no clear to worry about cutting thin, Single stage paint systems can cure very hard and hence be tough to buff discouraging many from the endevor however the results can boggle minds.
There is no skipping steps...
First 1000
then 2000
then the wool pad
then the whitefoam pad
then the grey foam

wax on wax off.

A clean spray area is key and once in a while there perfect that's when you get hooked if you get it right a couple times ..
Hang in there ..


Need Some Finishing "How To's"

Thanks ....X

Last edited by x711; 12-03-2005 at 12:56 AM.
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Old 12-03-2005, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zapf
I need some help on buffing. I have read everything i can get my hands on but i still am not getting the finish I am looking for. I am working with a hood that I shot 6 coats of Val spar Ac2000 clear on and planed on buffing it to a deep shine. Well after wet sanding it with 2000 and a lot of water I got it very smooth. Then I use my Makita 9227 with the white foam 3M 05723 "3M Perfect it System" using Extra cut compound until dry and semi shine then on to the black 05725 "Perfect it" with 3M swirl mark remover. It looks ok at that point then I go over it with the 3m final glaze using the black foam.
After all that I still see a light white glaze and some very little scratches.

I alway apply the 3M stuff with a clean rag and wipe it all over what I going to do, then with the buffer set on 600 rpm and go over the hole area then slowly increase the speed up to 2400 until the foam pad starts to grab then I stop.

What is going wrong. Is there a specific speed I should run the buffer at from the start to end of each compound?

Any help or links would be very appreciated.

Thanks
Try 3M Finesse-It with a good wool pad.
Good at removing those very fine scratches and leaving a brilliant shine at the same time.
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Old 12-03-2005, 11:28 AM
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I always keep a spay bottle of water, once the compound starts getting stickey give it a mist of water.
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Old 12-04-2005, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUKEOFBLUZ
I always keep a spay bottle of water, once the compound starts getting sticky give it a mist of water.
Now thats a good Idea. So with that it mind you want the compound to work longer, but now I have to ask how much longer? two times or three longer?
Thanks allot DUKEOFBLUZ

I look into get a "3M Finesse-It" compound at this point I am will to try anything to get the finish I want.
Thank you also roger1
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Old 12-04-2005, 08:59 AM
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Be careful with the wool pad if you have never used one before.

It's real easy as long you keep the tilt of your buffer to where the wheel won't go into the edges.

Do it wrong once and let it dig into an edge, and it can can go right through the finish in an instant.
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Old 12-04-2005, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zapf
...After all that I still see a light white glaze and some very little scratches...
Hmm... Are those little scratches straight or swirly?
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Old 12-04-2005, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashtech
Hmm... Are those little scratches straight or swirly?
There swirly like from the 2000 grit sandpaper. Maybe I am just not cutting into the clear like the pros do. I decided to use the white then black foam because I have had bad luck with a wool pads, once I ended up re shoot a hood and because of that I am a little gun shy.

Sanding the hood I would wipe the sandpaper off with a clean rag and the area before I moved on just to make sure there was nothing on the paper to scratch.
I stopped at the Val spar dealer thinking of getting 2500 or even 3000 grit sand paper. The guys just giggled and said they have never heard of that grit. I know I read somewhere on this board guys used a high grit but I must have been mistaken.

Not sure what to do next maybe more buffing and things might work out or keep trying different pads and compounds..
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Old 12-04-2005, 07:51 PM
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Do your sanding in one direction if possible so the scratches are in a straight line, I never wetsand in a circular motion. When you're done sanding wash the area with water. Buff at low rpm with the extra cut compound untill the straight sanding scratches are removed doing only a 12-18 inch area at a time untill the whole panel is done with all sandscratches removed. Then wash with water again. Then change pads and use a finer compound or polish (swirl mark remover) to remove any swirl marks, then wash again and apply your glaze.

That extra cut compound is some viscous stuff, kinda reminds me of the Old 3M superduty but in a waterbase. It breaks down as you use it but when it first starts cutting there's some major abrasive work going on. Using a water bottle to wet it again as you go does help to keep it cutting as it breaks down to a finer grit.

There's no need to smear the compound on with a rag, just squirt a little on the surface and spin your buffing pad at very low rpm to spread the compound across your buffing area. The key is to buff only one small area at a time, inspect to determine if all of your sandscrathes are removed and move over to the next area, then repeat. Bob
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Old 12-05-2005, 02:55 PM
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The 3000,3M Trizact & 4000 Mirka Abralon grit are special DA pads,not paper.
2000 is "usually" the highest grit paper you can find locally.
I believe Maguires has paper in these grits,might check their web site and see for yourself.
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Old 12-05-2005, 06:11 PM
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I was taught never to "circle sand" while color sanding, but to follow the lines of the vehicle. Doing it that way will make it easier to determine whether the scratches are from color sanding or the buffing pad/compound.
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Old 12-05-2005, 07:42 PM
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You guys are Great!!! I want to close this thread with a little advise to anyone looking to read more about buffing but just cannot seem to find the answers there looking for, but before I sum it up, Thank you all for your replays and advise. Things came out perfect and I learned some very cool tricks.

1. Color wet sand with 2000 grit and a lot of water.
2. Use a flat rubber or foam pad over the sandpaper.
3. Sand by following the lines of the vehicle. Never little circle sand.
4. Clean the area and pad often as to not pick bad things and rub them in.
5. White and black 3M foam pads work good safer to use then wool. But take more time.
6. When the using extra cut compound, as it start to dry, mist a little water on the area. It's like a rejuvenate on the pad / compound so you can keep on working the area a little longer.
7. The Makita 9227 with the white foam 3M 05723 "3M Perfect it System" using Extra cut compound and black 05725 "Perfect it" with 3M swirl mark remover work as good or even better then I ever expected.
8. Cover the lower parts of the car your not working on to keep your power cord from hitting it. (It can leave marks)
9. Take your time, This is your pride and joy your working on and one slip could cost ya.


Thanks
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Old 12-06-2005, 07:15 PM
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That's a pretty decent list, I'm glad you were able to solve your problem! BTW, what WAS the problem?
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Old 12-06-2005, 09:29 PM
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Change everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapf
I need some help on buffing. I have read everything i can get my hands on but i still am not getting the finish I am looking for. I am working with a hood that I shot 6 coats of Val spar Ac2000 clear on and planed on buffing it to a deep shine. Well after wet sanding it with 2000 and a lot of water I got it very smooth. Then I use my Makita 9227 with the white foam 3M 05723 "3M Perfect it System" using Extra cut compound until dry and semi shine then on to the black 05725 "Perfect it" with 3M swirl mark remover. It looks ok at that point then I go over it with the 3m final glaze using the black foam.
After all that I still see a light white glaze and some very little scratches.

I alway apply the 3M stuff with a clean rag and wipe it all over what I going to do, then with the buffer set on 600 rpm and go over the hole area then slowly increase the speed up to 2400 until the foam pad starts to grab then I stop.

What is going wrong. Is there a specific speed I should run the buffer at from the start to end of each compound?

Any help or links would be very appreciated.

Thanks
I use Mequiars Diamond cut with a soft wool pad. NOT a cutting pad. It is an Orange color real Lambswool Pad. Hard to find, but worth it. A Cutting Pad is usually white wool, and looks like strings glued to a disk and leaves deep scratches that are difficult to remove with a finer polish.
Final sand with Meguiars Unigrit #2500 Sandpaper only before Buffing or you'll have a difficult time getting the scratches out. I prefer circular motions and light pressure to prevent grooves. Soak the Paper in water at least 1/2 Hour to soften it to prevent deep scratches. Don't apply the polish and spread it around, as it will dry, and that's never good. Buff with very light pressure, and fast speed until the compound goes away. Clean the Pad now and then with a spur wheel tool. When the scratches are gone, Buff again with the same compound, but with a Meguiars YELLOW sponge pad. Fast speed leaves less scratches. Get it as perfect and scratch free as possible. Finish Buff with Meguiars SWRIL FREE Polish on a Meguiars Biegh colored Foam pad, cleaned frequently by wetting with a spray of Water and spinning dry (damp) at full speed over an empty pail. Swril free should be used at the slower speeds to avoid drying it. Stop buffing before the polish disappears, or you will go back to dull. If at this point you find missed scratches, rebuff with the yellow Pad and Diamond cut.
When you declare it done, finish it with Mequiars HAND POLISH applied with a Beigh Meguiars Foam pad in your hand as an applicater. Cover a large section, then mist with Meguiars FINAL INSPECTION spray, and wipe with long straight wipes if possible and MICROFIBER TOWELS ONLY.
This works on the older style common softer paints. Not on scratch resistant Clear or Ceramic paints. On hard, modern Clears, just omit the Biegh Pad, and use a Yellow one with 70% Diamond cut, and 30% swrill free polish.
Waxing is not needed if your Car is inside most of it's life. (Show cars) I like ZYMOL CARBON Wax on a frequently used car no matter what color it is.
I used to use 3M polishes, but never again. Too toxic- My Hands were splitting open and bleeding . And I get better results with Meguiars.
You can't do a good job if you can't see W.T.F you're doing, so look at the area you're working on with a CLEAR 60 Watt. Halogen bulb at about 3 to 6 feet away. Look at the reflection of the side of that bulb. No reflector. I use a Clamp light with the reflector off. I you work in an area lit up with a lot of Flourescent tubes, you can't see the lighter scratches in the paint. If you want to do a really good job, try turning all the lights out, and have only a few clear Halogen bulbs to guide you. you'll see every scratch.
.......... Good luck, and I'll see you at Pebble Beach.
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