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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2011, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69chevy 434ci
Cobalt327 so to get 500 hp out of a small block would not be a problem with the heads I already have what block would you use? I want to go after market for the block I am a firm believer in dart blocks. What do you think? Its going into a 69 chevelle. Also what would be a reasonable hp range for building a 434 stroker if that’s what I built?
Why would you want to run reverse dome pistons wouldn’t that lower the compression losing power? I have always heard that more compression makes more power obviously you know a lot more than me im just trying to learn more. Also what are your thoughts on just using a big block and selling my heads and starting from scratch. I have never even driven a big block. That seems to be something everyone is saying on here I'm trying to keep an open mind.
What is your goal for compression? Those heads are advertised at 64CC but the chambers should be poured to find out what CC they truely are. A 427 or bigger I would use a better head maybe the Dart 227's

We are a WD for Dart and an SHP block would work or a Little sportsman block would be a good choice the billet cap block would be over kill.

The BB is another good option!!

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2011, 07:37 AM
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I had the heads worked a few weeks ago and they said they was 62cc. I'm not too sure what compression I want to run the highest I have ever ran was 10.5.1 so beyond that i dont know.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2011, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69chevy 434ci
Cobalt327 so to get 500 hp out of a small block would not be a problem with the heads I already have what block would you use? I want to go after market for the block I am a firm believer in dart blocks. What do you think? Its going into a 69 chevelle. Also what would be a reasonable hp range for building a 434 stroker if that’s what I built?
Why would you want to run reverse dome pistons wouldn’t that lower the compression losing power? I have always heard that more compression makes more power obviously you know a lot more than me im just trying to learn more. Also what are your thoughts on just using a big block and selling my heads and starting from scratch. I have never even driven a big block. That seems to be something everyone is saying on here I'm trying to keep an open mind.
I would say that since you already have the Motown heads as long as they're in good shape and haven't been ported by a hack or something like that, to go ahead and build a SBC w/them.

The chamber size is rather small for a 400-plus cid engine, but there are reverse dome pistons that will allow you to use pump gas and still make 500 HP and also be streetable. I would be leaning towards building it as a 3.75" stroke engine and there's really no good reason not to use the 4.125" bore version, either.

If this engine wasn't going to be street driven- or if you don't mind running race gas, then high compression ratios will allow you to run more cam. But for 500 HP you just don't need to use such high compression if you don't want to. That's why I recommend you to use the reverse dome pistons to keep the engine pump gas friendly.

As for the Dart block, sure, if it's in the budget, go for it. You can look over their line of blocks HERE and if you have any questions regarding them, just ask. You can use the SHP for your 500 HP build. They have the option to get the block prepared by them so you wouldn't need to rely on a local machine shop to prep the block.

The whole "434 SBC" deal is just not a first time engine build kind of project IMHO. And it's just not needed for making that Chevelle a LOT of fun. But it's your decision as to what and how you build your engine.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2011, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNC BLOCKS NE
But it does say STANDARD raised cam tunnel
And your point is what? Dart sells a "standard" raised tunnel block as well as an OPTIONAL raised tunnel block.
From Dart:
Quote:
Raised camshaft .391" (4.912" camshaft to crankshaft centerlines) provides more clearance for stroker cranks and eliminates need for fragile small base circle cams. Option for .434 raised cam also available.


Maybe YOU should do some reading! LOL

I manned up and admitted MY error. Maybe you should do the same.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2011, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69chevy 434ci
I had the heads worked a few weeks ago and they said they was 62cc. I'm not too sure what compression I want to run the highest I have ever ran was 10.5.1 so beyond that i dont know.
Compression is a necessary evil, so to speak. In the days gone by, we built 11:1 engines routinely w/o giving it a whole lot of thought. These were our street engines, race only pieces would have higher CR than that by quite a bit, 13.5:1 wasn't at all unusual. Gas was dirt cheap and octane levels were through the roof. Hell, pump high test would be considered race gas today, and it sold for 50˘/gall!

But these days, well- you know the deal w/gas prices and pump gas quality. It all is horrible. So, now days the idea most of us have is to work w/what we have to work with, but using the "tricks of the trade" to allow the engine to still make good power w/o unnecessarily retarding timing. And one of those tricks is to make the "quench" tight enough to be able to use 92 octane w/full ignition advance.

Really all there is to it, is to adhere to good engine building practices, anyway. These things were done even years ago by the better builders, but they could be ignored by the slackers because there was enough cheap octane to cover up their less-than-ideal building practices.

Because your heads are cast iron, you cannot use as much CR as an aluminum head. But the way I see it, that's not a disadvantage necessarily- it's only because aluminum heads lose their heat to the coolant that they can use higher compression. But heat is power- so the cast iron heads have the potential to make the same power as the aluminum heads w/a slightly lower CR because they retain heat in the chambers better.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2011, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
I manned up and admitted MY error. Maybe you should do the same.
I thought I did go back to my post other post
Quote:
I should not have said raised but I ment standard cam tunnel block
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2011, 09:27 AM
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Just making sure is all.
Even though "But it does say STANDARD raised cam tunnel" was WEAK. LOL

Now why don't you and I quit stinking up the board and you can try to add something to help the OP? Because the mods WILL kill this thread, and that wouldn't be fair now would it.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2011, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
I would say that since you already have the Motown heads as long as they're in good shape and haven't been ported by a hack or something like that, to go ahead and build a SBC w/them.

The chamber size is rather small for a 400-plus cid engine, but there are reverse dome pistons that will allow you to use pump gas and still make 500 HP and also be streetable. I would be leaning towards building it as a 3.75" stroke engine and there's really no good reason not to use the 4.125" bore version, either.

As for the Dart block, sure, if it's in the budget, go for it. You can look over their line of blocks HERE and if you have any questions regarding them, just ask. You can use the SHP for your 500 HP build. They have the option to get the block prepared by them so you wouldn't need to rely on a local machine shop to prep the block.

We are using a set of 18 degree with 43CC chamber and its a 427 build what the big deal with chamber size and cubic inch???

I take it you have never seen an SHP block !!!

Those blocks need to be decked and even at 9.025 they need to be decked as they do come a few thou tall

The bores on the big bore block are only 4.120 and need plate honing if your going with 4.125 finish bore.

Block may need to be bored for an over size bore and finished honed.

Bottom of the cylinders need to be chamfered.

Lifter bore clearance needs to be checked

All oil galley holes need to be taped deeper.

98% of the SHP blocks we machine for customers and shops don't want the grade 8 bolts but do up grade to a stud kit and we do line hone to the high side of the spec. Do to the different clamping force we do see housing bores affected demesionaly

We also radius the main houisng bores and deburr around the rear main cap.

Also the the freeze plug holes and cam plug hole need to be chamfered.

Cleaned ready to go those blocks run 1830.00 and we have shipped probably 130 plus of the SHP blocks with no problems.

70% of the blocks we sell customers up date to the .903 lifter bores which is very common now.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2011, 09:53 AM
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I think there's enough catty talk over details...


If you really want 700hp I would go big block or ls. You can get 700hp out of either on a serious pump gas build, its not cheap though.

You need to have a better plan before you do anything though, and realize the heads you have are a poor reason to justify any decisions on a build at this price level- if we were talking a shoe string budget with a few used parts to make 500hp itd be one thing but that's not the direction of your plan thus far. I can't justify a 700hp build for myself, I just wouldn't enjoy it enough for the cost involved, but many people are "more serious" than I and have no problem building. $40k hotrod.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2011, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cnc
Those blocks need to be decked and...
Maybe that is why I told him:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt
They have the option to get the block prepared by them so you wouldn't need to rely on a local machine shop to prep the block.

Last edited by cobalt327; 06-02-2011 at 10:42 AM. Reason: Discretion/valor type thing.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2011, 11:38 AM
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Hey guys thanks for all your help if anything I have learned on here is I need to learn more of what I want before I go building an engine I have a few older friends around here who I think can help me decide what I need to build once I have a better understanding of what i want ill post some of the info I have then and see what you guys think, but again thanks

John
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2011, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69chevy 434ci
Hey guys thanks for all your help if anything I have learned on here is I need to learn more of what I want before I go building an engine I have a few older friends around here who I think can help me decide what I need to build once I have a better understanding of what i want ill post some of the info I have then and see what you guys think, but again thanks

John
Despite what you may have seen here regarding reading as NOT being a means to an end, and instead that somehow reading up on a subject is BAD , I would respectfully suggest that you do that very thing.

Here are a couple books that came up in a search just now. There have been other books recommended as being good reference material in the past, here on this board- but the titles I don't recall. Hopefully someone else can make a suggestion.

Vizzard's how to rebuild your SMALL-BLOCK CHEVY (HP Books), How to Build Big-Inch Chevy Small Blocks (SA Design) by Graham Hansen, , How to Build Max Perf Chevy Small-Blocks on a Budget by David Vizard.

You may want to look into a turbocharger set up. There's a book that I remember being recommended for that, too, but again I don't recall the title. But running a turbo is more popular than ever these days. BIG power is possible and their more affordable than previously, too. And there's more info available than ever. Do a search and read up on it, that may well be the answer to you wanting crazy power yet still be streetable and affordable!

Remember, knowledge is power and do not be put off by those who would have you believe there anything wrong w/reading. No one comes out of the womb w/all the knowledge they will need. So to gain that knowledge, we listen (which is 'reading' w/your ears in a sense), we use trial and error, we watch others ( 'reading' their actions), and we read words.

If not for reading, my first rebuild of a TH350, a TH400 and a differential ring and pinion/carrier change would not have been possible- I used a GM factory manual as my ONLY reference (this was WAY before the internet, early '70's). Just use "defensive reading". By that I mean to double check by asking here or researching things on your own that seem "off". Books- like people- are not 100% correct all the time. To expect that is to ignore reality. And I can also assure you that on this board the usual response to someone making an error is almost never turned into a vendetta, so don't let the BS on THIS thread keep you from asking what you want to know.

Last edited by cobalt327; 06-02-2011 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Book title.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2011, 12:27 PM
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Well sir I do appreciate your help I have read other post where you helped people out its really nice to know that there are still people who help others out even when their like me and don't really have a clue what they want lol im going to check those books out because i believe knowledge is power and this is an area that has always interested me.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2011, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69chevy 434ci
Well sir I do appreciate your help I have read other post where you helped people out its really nice to know that there are still people who help others out even when their like me and don't really have a clue what they want lol im going to check those books out because i believe knowledge is power and this is an area that has always interested me.
Glad to try to help. This board is ate up w/guys who will take time to share their knowledge (even CNC, when he's not obsessing over something ) and like you, I think that's great. It's a big part of why I'm here.

Keep us posted and good luck.
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:05 PM
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I agree, do ALOT of reading. I read on this board and the rest of the net for a year before i ever bought the first part. I had bolted together other motors that all the parts were all ready picked (by my dad) but had never done my own start to finish, picking out evrything myself from the block, cam, heads, intake, rotator...everything and see how it turns out. So i read and read and researced and when i thought i was ready....i read some more. The why's, the why not's, how to's and the what if's. There are countless people on here that helped and they don't even know it because i never asked a question. The search function on this board is awsome. If your anything like me, you don't really have the money to do build a motor twice, one right after another so i wanted to do it right the first time. I am real happy with the way mine turned out. Plenty enough power to spin so wheels, show off, get the heart rate up, feel alive and of coarse get in trouble if i let it.
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