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Old 07-07-2013, 11:34 PM
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HELP cut&buff&clear in general

Ok so basically no matter what I do my clear coat gets what I call factory orange peel. I know everyonesays ' IF YOU GOT ENOUGH CLEAR YOU CAN CUT AND BUFF IT OUT!'.
Well I can't seem to be able to cut and buff it out.I can wet sand it. Out its never to the point that you can fill it with your fingers just has the slight op look.Sometimes I get it perfect using the same gun same settings same panel so I'm guessing that part just has to do with my distance or travel speed.Anyways so I can with fan but when it comes time to use to cut and buff compound I just can't seem to get it to have the loss that it did before.I'm prepared and willing to buy any DVD book or magazine, paint gun buffing compounds,pads etc please help if ya have suggestions I keep looking for a good read up on how to do this but can't seem to find a good step by step any ideas?Btw Im still using summit cc &my flg4 gun with usually a 1,5 tip sometimes 1.3 & I notice when I do a small area like the a pillars or the posts between a truck window&cab corner they come out ****!
I don't want to go buy a satajet or some spi clear to practice if I don't have to would love to learn how to cut&buff correctly Everything else I do from base,to shaping metal to patch panels I'm awesome just the clear is th issue.
Please excuse any typos or terseness: this email was sent from my mobile and I have clumsy fingers.ll

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Old 07-08-2013, 06:21 AM
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1st...If you want good results use good materials....I cant think of one body shop that uses Sumit....Try SPI universal clear and most to all of your troubles will disappear. The reason I recomend this stuff is it looks like glass and sands and buffs easily...Its all I use and the cost very affordable...
After spraying I sand with 1500 then buff with fine cut compound on a cutting pad then swirl remover on the polishing pad followed by machine glaze...You wont find anyone that hates buffing more than I so try it this way and see for yourself....I gar un tee your buffing troubles will be over...
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:32 AM
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What works for me:

Cut is just that, cut the peel off with sand paper, 600 to start with if the peel is significant. Then 800. Cut 99% of the peel off in this step.

The next steps are not peel removers they are scratch refiners. 1000 grit,1200 grit,1500 grit,3000 grit.

Don't skip any grits.

Change paper often you want to be cutting and not burnishing the paint.

The use your favorite system of compounds and pads. I have had great success with the 3m system, but there are many good ones out there to use, mostly user preference imho
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:46 AM
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I think air is your problem. Pressure and or volume. Modern paints takes a lot to bust it up enough to lay down flat. What will look smoother, a pile of sand, or a pile of basketballs? Try a 3/8ths inch hose and high flow fittings. Any clear should be able to be polished to acceptable gloss. However the better the clean, the better the gloss. Tell us exactly your process and exactly what your using, and we can see what problems might be there.

Also just takes practice. Buff your daily driver, buff your wife/girlfriends car, your moms car, ur neighbor... You get the idea.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
1st...If you want good results use good materials....I cant think of one body shop that uses Sumit....Try SPI universal clear and most to all of your troubles will disappear. The reason I recomend this stuff is it looks like glass and sands and buffs easily...Its all I use and the cost very affordable...
After spraying I sand with 1500 then buff with fine cut compound on a cutting pad then swirl remover on the polishing pad followed by machine glaze...You wont find anyone that hates buffing more than I so try it this way and see for yourself....I gar un tee your buffing troubles will be over...
Sound familiar Cut...give the SPI Universal Clear a try....I just sent you an email before reading this with part numbers and prices...you will not go wrong and if you still get more Orange Peel than you want....at least this stuff polishes like a dream.

Further to what Mike posted...I take my sandpaper a step or two finer, as Mike said, he hates polishing, I don't mind it that much but it can be tedious ...even with Universal Clear, if you finish sanding with something like a 2,500 grit or 3,000 grit, you can damn near hand polish this clear.

Give it a try Bud.

Ray
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger View Post
I think air is your problem. Pressure and or volume. Modern paints takes a lot to bust it up enough to lay down flat. What will look smoother, a pile of sand, or a pile of basketballs? Try a 3/8ths inch hose and high flow fittings. Any clear should be able to be polished to acceptable gloss. However the better the clean, the better the gloss. Tell us exactly your process and exactly what your using, and we can see what problems might be there.

Also just takes practice. Buff your daily driver, buff your wife/girlfriends car, your moms car, ur neighbor... You get the idea.
X2 big time, And what about your air supply? Is the compressor big enough to provide the CFM needed for your gun?

As far as cutting and buffing I have to say I have cut and buffed too many to imagine, hundreds?, thousands?, I don't know but I don't have big enough nads to hit them with 600 first. Did I years ago, yep. With modern bc/cc oh yeah I have, one in particular pops out in my head. But again, that was an application problem, correct the application problem and you don't have to even entertain the thought of 600 first pass. Generally 800 or 1000 is where I start, with 1000 being the norm.

Brian
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Sound familiar Cut...give the SPI Universal Clear a try....I just sent you an email before reading this with part numbers and prices...you will not go wrong and if you still get more Orange Peel than you want....at least this stuff polishes like a dream.

Further to what Mike posted...I take my sandpaper a step or two finer, as Mike said, he hates polishing, I don't mind it that much but it can be tedious ...even with Universal Clear, if you finish sanding with something like a 2,500 grit or 3,000 grit, you can damn near hand polish this clear.

Give it a try Bud.

Ray
I have always enjoyed cutting and buffing a show job, as long as I have the time. I just love going over every single detail, knocking off every single spec of texture. I don't know, I have always enjoyed it, it's the final touch, the last thing that makes it the paint job you want it.

Brian
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
X2 big time, And what about your air supply? Is the compressor big enough to provide the CFM needed for your gun?

As far as cutting and buffing I have to say I have cut and buffed too many to imagine, hundreds?, thousands?, I don't know but I don't have big enough nads to hit them with 600 first. Did I years ago, yep. With modern bc/cc oh yeah I have, one in particular pops out in my head. But again, that was an application problem, correct the application problem and you don't have to even entertain the thought of 600 first pass. Generally 800 or 1000 is where I start, with 1000 being the norm.

Brian
I agree Brian, 600 grit is very aggressive...if I get a run or a sag I might use 600 grit just to level it out but to knock off Orange Peel, 800 or 1000 to start is all you need.

As far as enjoying polishing....I need to have the picture of the finished product in my mind, knowing what it's going to look like makes polishing almost enjoyable at times...LOL.

Ray
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
I agree Brian, 600 grit is very aggressive...if I get a run or a sag I might use 600 grit just to level it out but to knock off Orange Peel, 800 or 1000 to start is all you need.

As far as enjoying polishing....I need to have the picture of the finished product in my mind, knowing what it's going to look like makes polishing almost enjoyable at times...LOL.

Ray
Of course it has to be the plan from the beginning. I'm not talking about correcting mistakes. I'm talking about going from primer to clear with the plan of making a glass smooth work of art. "Just polishing" for the sake of polishing or correcting mistakes to make it "good enough" isn't what I'm referring to, that is maddening! I should clarify that.

Brian
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Of course it has to be the plan from the beginning. I'm not talking about correcting mistakes. I'm talking about going from primer to clear with the plan of making a glass smooth work of art. "Just polishing" for the sake of polishing or correcting mistakes to make it "good enough" isn't what I'm referring to, that is maddening! I should clarify that.

Brian
Agreed. Color sanding and buffing is the final touch. I can get lost in color sanding a panel. It is physically easy, Requires little thought and an be totally relaxing. The thing is my lively hood does not depend on how fast I can do it so if I spend 4-5 hours sanding a panel and another 1 1/2 hours buffing it is nobody's business but mine. Nothing feels better than to stand back and look at the results of your hard work and patience.

John
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:36 PM
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Agreed. Color sanding and buffing is the final touch. I can get lost in color sanding a panel. It is physically easy, Requires little thought and an be totally relaxing. The thing is my lively hood does not depend on how fast I can do it so if I spend 4-5 hours sanding a panel and another 1 1/2 hours buffing it is nobody's business but mine. Nothing feels better than to stand back and look at the results of your hard work and patience.

John
So true John...it's more about patience and what you want as a final outcome. The principals are not rocket science, follow the steps one panel at a time...after you have successfully cut and buffed one panel and you stand back and look at what your results are, for me is motivation enough to get the entire vehicle to glow like the panel you just finished.

On a clean, fresh paint job (no runs, minimal junk in the paint and good flow) and depending on the size, shape and color of the vehicle (a black 1959 Cadillac Eldorado would take more time) I will spend upwards of 40 to 50 hours color sanding and polishing, one panel at a time and after a panel is done, masking it off so that the polish spatter doesn't get all over the freshly polished panel (that also includes several hours of just looking at it with pride). This is sometimes hard for a customer to understand while your doing it, especially when they are paying by the hour but when you deliver a piece of glass, most times the anguish of paying those hours is gone.

Ray
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:17 PM
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Yupper, The customer will remember the quality of the product long after the price is forgotten.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:32 PM
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I like to start with 1200-1500 by hand with a small hard block, then 2000 with an ultra soft block, and trizac last. You have to pay close attention to every little detail, to even having your block slightly at an angle cause sanding straight might leave a gouge from the paper folded over your block, or how you leave the paper in there an hour to soften up, or how you throw in a little bit of soap for lube, or how you build a routine on ways to keep your car wet sanded with out getting grit from the floor onto your paper, or how you run your trizac slow and moist to keep pig tails away, or how you release weight off your buffer as your compound is drying. Every little detail counts and adds up. The more flat the bodywork is and flat the clear is the more it will show you any imperfection. If you miss a nib it will stand out like a sore thumb.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:26 PM
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Well as I was tell in a wide track earlier I ran out of clean your support out some single stage they gave me nothing but problems in the past. I cut it with reducer&dropd my air. pressure& got awesome results.I also am running a 60 gal comp.I'm hoping this solves it.Also do you guys consider Factory op to he's acceptable for a budget job?
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:31 PM
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perfectly acceptable for a budget job and you'll have that clear in case you want to buff out or rub out some scuffs later.
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