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Old 08-27-2012, 08:16 PM
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Help deciding on headers for my 350

Can you guys give me suggestion on my header choice or even some food for thought on choosing the right headers?

Stock smogger 350
601 heads
Th350
Stock mild cam

Thanks, Mark

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Old 08-27-2012, 09:10 PM
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By the way it's a daily driver.
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:50 PM
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1 1/2 primary pipes,read the instructions to see which headers install easy and have room to change plugs.dont buy the cheapest ones you want them to last
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:09 AM
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i'm looking at 1 5/8" primary pipes with a 3" collectors.
As far as them lasting i get that also don't want excessive engine compartment heat.
any reason you suggest 1 1/2" primary pipes?
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1972 El Camino View Post
any reason you suggest 1 1/2" primary pipes?
With the stock motor, the 1 1/2 primaries will bump up the off idle and midrange torque better than a bigger header will. Youre trying to improve the flow with-in the engines operating range. This is one of those areas where bigger is not better.
If your engine had a compression bump, better flowing heads, a larger cam, matched intake, then you would want the larger headers.

Hooker makes a great fitting header, they offer different colors of ceramic coating, and they last. I got 25 years out of my last set of Hookers.

Make sure you read the warrenty of any header that you decide to buy, not all ceramic coatings are the same, and some are not guarenteed.
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FmrStrtracer View Post
With the stock motor, the 1 1/2 primaries will bump up the off idle and midrange torque better than a bigger header will. Youre trying to improve the flow with-in the engines operating range. This is one of those areas where bigger is not better.
If your engine had a compression bump, better flowing heads, a larger cam, matched intake, then you would want the larger headers.

Hooker makes a great fitting header, they offer different colors of ceramic coating, and they last. I got 25 years out of my last set of Hookers.

Make sure you read the warrenty of any header that you decide to buy, not all ceramic coatings are the same, and some are not guarenteed.
i hear ya but it wont really be considered "stock" once i get the 601 ported heads with 53cc chambers will it?

it was actually a typo on my part i'm thinking full length headers 1-5/8" primary tubes with 2-1/2" or 3" collectors.

the cam i have now is the E-274-S - Elgin Industries : Online Catalog

Product Description
Fits: 1955 to 1994 283ci - 305ci - 307ci - 327ci - 350ci - 400ci

• 258°/269° Adv. Dur.
• 112° Lobe Center
• 40° Overlap

• Idle Quality: Smooth, stock type
• Power Range: 1000 - 3200 RPM
• Good choice for heavy towing
• Recommended spring pressure 95lbs. for valve on seat; 240lbs. for valve open
• Compression: 9.0:1 or less
• Transmission: Stock auto or Manual

pretty sure from the builders mouth i have the "1470-8" pistons - Keith Black/KB Pistons 1470-080 - Silv-O-Lite Cast Pistons - Overview - SummitRacing.com

page 66 , part #1470- http://www.kb-silvolite.com/assets/0...te_catalog.pdf -


thinking a cam with 216/216 or 218/218 with my stock converter.

Last edited by 1972 El Camino; 08-28-2012 at 07:27 AM.
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:25 AM
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Sanderson headers are some of the best around,,that's what I use,give them a call and they'll be glad to help you pick a set of headers for your ride!
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:36 AM
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Headers

Here is a set of Hooker headers. Hooker has been making headers forever! Hooker Headers 2451HKR - Hooker Competition Headers - Overview - SummitRacing.com
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cdminter59 View Post
Here is a set of Hooker headers. Hooker has been making headers forever! Hooker Headers 2451HKR - Hooker Competition Headers - Overview - SummitRacing.com
thanks! - these are painted so from what i've read they create a lot of engine compartment heat.

i do like that they are available for air injection for my smog setup.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:49 AM
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Hello,
On the search for headers for my 72 El Camino SS has led me to some things to think about. Leave the factory AIR system in place or remove it?
Summit offers these Hooker Headers 2451HKR - Hooker Competition Headers - Application - SummitRacing.com
Come to find out they have discontinued part#02451HKR that has holes for the air injector tubes.
I spoke with summit racing’s live chat and he told me the only other ones are these Hedman Hedders 68291 - Hedman Street Hedders - Application - SummitRacing.com for my application.
Quote:
Gus: Hi, my name is Gus. How may I help you?
mark abrahamian: hi Gus - im looking for headers for my 1972 el camino ss.
mark abrahamian: will these work on my car? Hooker Headers 2451HKR
mark abrahamian: as far as they fitting, plug access, clearance etc
Gus: You have a small block?
mark abrahamian: 350 yes
mark abrahamian: i notice when i select SS the earliest year is 74 or 75
Gus: A/C, Power steering?
mark abrahamian: ac and power steering
mark abrahamian: classic auto air compressor
Gus: Standard iron heads?
mark abrahamian: so the bracket is slightly different
mark abrahamian: it will have 601 heads on it so standard yes
Gus: Yes these will work in your car
mark abrahamian: and they do come with air injector holes for my smog setup?
Gus: No that is a different part number, Just a moment
mark abrahamian: i read its a 0 in front of the part number?
mark abrahamian: Available with fittings to accommodate air injection manifold. Add a 0 in front of the part number when ordering.
mark abrahamian: just wanted to verify that that is what its for? smog tubes?
Gus: That is correct
mark abrahamian: so my 601's don’t have angled plugs?
Gus: You have the air hoses that screw into your manifolds currently?
mark abrahamian: yes screw into the stock iron exhaust manifolds
Gus: Ok, so you would need the other part number but it looks like Hooker discontinued the Smog version
mark abrahamian: uh oh
mark abrahamian: suggestion at this point?
Gus: Let me check Hedman or flow tech
mark abrahamian: highly appreciated
Gus: Hedman Hedders 68291 - Hedman Street Hedders - Overview - SummitRacing.com
mark abrahamian: so these are the same as hooker- better or not as good?
mark abrahamian: i notice these are 18 guage - the hookers were 16
Gus: They are the only set for that car with air injection
mark abrahamian: ah hah
mark abrahamian: so these or if i can find someone that still has 02451HKR available
Gus: Yea you would have to find someone with old stock
mark abrahamian: i appreciate you time Gus, thank you! - have a great day!
So Im wondering if I should leave the stock AIR pump setup in place and try to find headers that will work or removed it?

i appreciate your help on this one!
Mark
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:43 AM
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Headers

Well it looks like you have two choices either use the hedman headers or do away with the smog equipment. Is this a show car that you want to keep factory correct? If not take all the smog equipment off and buy the Hooker headers. They are made better. Heavier gauge metal tubes and flanges are probably thicker too. If you have a factory numbers matching car that you take to car shows keep it as it is.
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdminter59 View Post
Well it looks like you have two choices either use the hedman headers or do away with the smog equipment. Is this a show car that you want to keep factory correct? If not take all the smog equipment off and buy the Hooker headers. They are made better. Heavier gauge metal tubes and flanges are probably thicker too. If you have a factory numbers matching car that you take to car shows keep it as it is.
its not a numbers matching car. your suggestion makes sense.

was trying to find a post that read something about the way the air pump functions that it actually helps the car to run better because it aids in the burning of excess fuel as well as aiding in keeping things cooler but cant seem to find it now.
i wondered if someone would come along and post advantages to having the system in place since after all it isn't the system itself that weighs on performance but how the cars were tuned at the factory that these system came stock on.
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:41 AM
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If the tubes for the A.I.R. are "turned down" into the head pipe (away from the valve), a slight gain in scavenging is achieved. It creates a "low pressure" area ("lowER" is probably more accurate) in the exhaust port. I recall a set of Hookers on a '70 or so Camaro done that way.

"Out of the box", Hooker is the best. Period. Buy them "painted" and send them to a REAL coating shop for a thermal barrier. We use Thermal Tech in hopewell, VA. Jet Hot (TX) and Swain (NY) also come to mind. The thermal barrier ios far superior to the ceramic coatings applied by header companies.

Your 601 heads "modified" are ALMOST as effective as a good pair of 441s or 993s. We've learned through necessity, "flow trumps compression". That is, while compression DOES "make" power, flow makes more. A good pair of heads with 2.02s (properly installed) will produce more power than 1.84s with two full points MORE compression, and be much miore pump gas "friendly".

1 5/8" primary, 3" collector is just right for this application. the 1 1/2" tubes would be okay, too, but no "room" for the future. Keep your exhaust 2 1/2 or smaller.

Jim
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Old 08-28-2012, 02:22 PM
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The Smog System

As you know in the 70's GM started the vehicle emissions control. The AIR system was added to pump fresh air into the exhaust system to help burn partially burned fuel before its ejection from the tailpipe. There was significant unburned and partially burned fuel in the exhaust of early 1970s vehicles, and so secondary air injection significantly reduced tailpipe emissions. However, the extra heat of recombustion, particularly with an excessively rich exhaust caused by misfiring or a maladjusted carburetor, tended to damage exhaust valves and could even be seen to cause the exhaust manifold to glow red. The reason for the unburned fuel in the first place was the smog heads GM produced that would not let the engine breath. The timing on the engines were also set at TDC or ATDC. So it makes sense to get rid of this junk, use better heads, headers or free flowing exhaust, better intakes, and adjust timing to burn fuel in the combustion chamber more completely.
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Old 08-28-2012, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by cdminter59 View Post
As you know in the 70's GM started the vehicle emissions control. The AIR system was added to pump fresh air into the exhaust system to help burn partially burned fuel before its ejection from the tailpipe. There was significant unburned and partially burned fuel in the exhaust of early 1970s vehicles, and so secondary air injection significantly reduced tailpipe emissions. However, the extra heat of recombustion, particularly with an excessively rich exhaust caused by misfiring or a maladjusted carburetor, tended to damage exhaust valves and could even be seen to cause the exhaust manifold to glow red. The reason for the unburned fuel in the first place was the smog heads GM produced that would not let the engine breath. The timing on the engines were also set at TDC or ATDC. So it makes sense to get rid of this junk, use better heads, headers or free flowing exhaust, better intakes, and adjust timing to burn fuel in the combustion chamber more completely.
makes perfect sense! thanks for that!
Mark
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