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Old 07-08-2006, 05:02 PM
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Help with engine build.

Hey, I am planning on building my first engine for my 1986 Monte Carlo Super Sport.

It's not going to be a everyday driver, only even ever on the road during the summer. So i'm looking to get around 400 HP.

Up until the past few days, i've known nothing about engine building, and still now I know very little. I have 2 books i'm reading, specifically "John Lingerfelter on modifying SBC engines" And 'How to build max performance chevy small blocks on a budget"By David Vizard. I'm 12 chapters through Johns book, hopefully will have both books read in the next week or two, though not having a engine physically infront of me, and not really knowing anyone interested in cars makes learning from just reading quite difficult.

I found a web site with lots and lots of SBC builds that have been built and dynod already, so I found one that with my limited knowledge looked affordable and will give me the specs I want in an engine.
Specifically a lower comp ratio so I can use pump gas, and around 400Hp.
I want to get everyone opinion on it. Anything you have to say, please let me know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Displacement: 355 cu. in.
Carburetor: Demon Road Demon 625
Heads: GM L31 Vortecs, with 1.94/1.50 in. valves
Intake: Edelbrock Performer RPM Vortec
Camshaft: Comp Cams Xtreme Energy 268 hydraulic, with 268/280 of duration, 224/230 of duration @ 0.050 in. of lift and 0.477/0.480 in. of lift.(Corrected valve lift with 1.6:1 rockers is 0.508/0.512 in.)
Rockers: Comp Cams roller, 1.6:1
Headers: Hedman Elite 1 5/8 in.
Pistons: Speed Pro dished
Rods: stock
Crank: Scat
Distributor: Pertronix HEI
Timing: 36
Comp. Ratio: 8.75:1

MAX HP: 390 @ 6000
MAX Torque: 426 @ 4000
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alot of it makes sense, though some things i'm still confused about.
1- all those numbers after the Camshaft mean squat to me right now, though thats the next chapter in Johns book, so hopefully that will make more sense to me afterwards.

2-The pistons, how do I know what dish pistons I am going to need?
I know I need them to fit my bore and all, but that actual dish, there are different sizes correct?

3-The crank, it just says Scat, which is a company i've found out, but do they only make one crank? If not, how do I know which one to use?

And anything else anyone could have to say about this build would be wonderful, good, bad, anything. This will be my very first time building an engine, the pieces will be bought as I can afford them, and i'm in no rush to get it finished, so everything will have the time and energy it deserves to get done.

For all of you who have taken the time to read this and hopefully reply, I truely appreciate it.

Thanks alot,
-Steve-

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Last edited by Artemis Entreri; 07-08-2006 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 07-08-2006, 08:35 PM
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I dont have a whole lot of time right now, but that combo should work very well. I had almost the exact same motor in a car of mine and it ran great. Mine just did not have the 1.6 rockers, but I think those are a good idea. I would, however consider closer to 9.5:1 compression. I had 9.9:1 with mine and it ran fine on 91 octane.

Adam
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Old 07-08-2006, 09:05 PM
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piston /crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis Entreri
Hey, I am planning on building my first engine for my 1986 Monte Carlo Super Sport.

It's not going to be a everyday driver, only even ever on the road during the summer. So i'm looking to get around 400 HP.

Up until the past few days, i've known nothing about engine building, and still now I know very little. I have 2 books i'm reading, specifically "John Lingerfelter on modifying SBC engines" And 'How to build max performance chevy small blocks on a budget"By David Vizard. I'm 12 chapters through Johns book, hopefully will have both books read in the next week or two, though not having a engine physically infront of me, and not really knowing anyone interested in cars makes learning from just reading quite difficult.

I found a web site with lots and lots of SBC builds that have been built and dynod already, so I found one that with my limited knowledge looked affordable and will give me the specs I want in an engine.
Specifically a lower comp ratio so I can use pump gas, and around 400Hp.
I want to get everyone opinion on it. Anything you have to say, please let me know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Displacement: 355 cu. in.
Carburetor: Demon Road Demon 625
Heads: GM L31 Vortecs, with 1.94/1.50 in. valves
Intake: Edelbrock Performer RPM Vortec
Camshaft: Comp Cams Xtreme Energy 268 hydraulic, with 268/280 of duration, 224/230 of duration @ 0.050 in. of lift and 0.477/0.480 in. of lift.(Corrected valve lift with 1.6:1 rockers is 0.508/0.512 in.)
Rockers: Comp Cams roller, 1.6:1
Headers: Hedman Elite 1 5/8 in.
Pistons: Speed Pro dished
Rods: stock
Crank: Scat
Distributor: Pertronix HEI
Timing: 36
Comp. Ratio: 8.75:1

MAX HP: 390 @ 6000
MAX Torque: 426 @ 4000
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alot of it makes sense, though some things i'm still confused about.
1- all those numbers after the Camshaft mean squat to me right now, though thats the next chapter in Johns book, so hopefully that will make more sense to me afterwards.

2-The pistons, how do I know what dish pistons I am going to need?
I know I need them to fit my bore and all, but that actual dish, there are different sizes correct?

3-The crank, it just says Scat, which is a company i've found out, but do they only make one crank? If not, how do I know which one to use?

And anything else anyone could have to say about this build would be wonderful, good, bad, anything. This will be my very first time building an engine, the pieces will be bought as I can afford them, and i'm in no rush to get it finished, so everything will have the time and energy it deserves to get done.

For all of you who have taken the time to read this and hopefully reply, I truely appreciate it.

Thanks alot,
-Steve-
best to get a steel crank
check this place out for kits and heads
www.enginekits.com
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Old 07-08-2006, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis Entreri
Hey, I am planning on building my first engine for my 1986 Monte Carlo Super Sport.

It's not going to be a everyday driver, only even ever on the road during the summer. So i'm looking to get around 400 HP.

Up until the past few days, i've known nothing about engine building, and still now I know very little. I have 2 books i'm reading, specifically "John Lingerfelter on modifying SBC engines" And 'How to build max performance chevy small blocks on a budget"By David Vizard. I'm 12 chapters through Johns book, hopefully will have both books read in the next week or two, though not having a engine physically infront of me, and not really knowing anyone interested in cars makes learning from just reading quite difficult.

I found a web site with lots and lots of SBC builds that have been built and dynod already, so I found one that with my limited knowledge looked affordable and will give me the specs I want in an engine.
Specifically a lower comp ratio so I can use pump gas, and around 400Hp.
I want to get everyone opinion on it. Anything you have to say, please let me know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Displacement: 355 cu. in.
Carburetor: Demon Road Demon 625
Heads: GM L31 Vortecs, with 1.94/1.50 in. valves
Intake: Edelbrock Performer RPM Vortec
Camshaft: Comp Cams Xtreme Energy 268 hydraulic, with 268/280 of duration, 224/230 of duration @ 0.050 in. of lift and 0.477/0.480 in. of lift.(Corrected valve lift with 1.6:1 rockers is 0.508/0.512 in.)
Rockers: Comp Cams roller, 1.6:1
Headers: Hedman Elite 1 5/8 in.
Pistons: Speed Pro dished
Rods: stock
Crank: Scat
Distributor: Pertronix HEI
Timing: 36
Comp. Ratio: 8.75:1

MAX HP: 390 @ 6000
MAX Torque: 426 @ 4000
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alot of it makes sense, though some things i'm still confused about.
1- all those numbers after the Camshaft mean squat to me right now, though thats the next chapter in Johns book, so hopefully that will make more sense to me afterwards.

2-The pistons, how do I know what dish pistons I am going to need?
I know I need them to fit my bore and all, but that actual dish, there are different sizes correct?

3-The crank, it just says Scat, which is a company i've found out, but do they only make one crank? If not, how do I know which one to use?

And anything else anyone could have to say about this build would be wonderful, good, bad, anything. This will be my very first time building an engine, the pieces will be bought as I can afford them, and i'm in no rush to get it finished, so everything will have the time and energy it deserves to get done.

For all of you who have taken the time to read this and hopefully reply, I truely appreciate it.

Thanks alot,
-Steve-

There are a couple of things that I would change. One of them would be just to use the stock GM crank. Why pay for a Scat crank (which is cast), and throw out a perfectly good GM cast crank? (which is just as good). Not only that, you won't need to rebalance the thing if you want to spend the money elsewhere.

I would probably use t a true flat top piston. By the time you compute the deck clearance and a normal .038 thick head gasket, you probably won't be over 9.75:1, and with the vortec heads, you normally don't run much over 32 degrees ignition lead.

The horsepower estimates might be a little on the generous side, but all else aside, this is a good first build and should run very well.


Brian
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Old 07-08-2006, 09:19 PM
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stock crank only rated for 250 hp 300 the most

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAIRB
There are a couple of things that I would change. One of them would be just to use the stock GM crank. Why pay for a Scat crank (which is cast), and throw out a perfectly good GM cast crank? (which is just as good). Not only that, you won't need to rebalance the thing if you want to spend the money elsewhere.

I would probably use t a true flat top piston. By the time you compute the deck clearance and a normal .038 thick head gasket, you probably won't be over 9.75:1, and with the vortec heads, you normally don't run much over 32 degrees ignition lead.

The horsepower estimates might be a little on the generous side, but all else aside, this is a good first build and should run very well.

Brian
i would run a steel crank 4340 thats rated for 400 hp and up stock gm is only good for maybe 300 hp tops and the crank is where you need the muscle you can get away with stock rods with bigger rod bolts
i would use keith black piston flat tops with gapless rings by total seal rings
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Old 07-08-2006, 10:54 PM
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The recommendation of a steel crank for street engine is a waste of money.

A properly prepared cast crank can and has, time and time again, endured well over 400 horsepower.

I've ran cast cranks in 550 horsepower bracket engines.

It's a waste of money imop.
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Old 07-08-2006, 11:20 PM
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I'd have to agree with NAIRB on the crank issue. I've got a 350 with a 142 ci Weiand supercharger on it that sees 6000-6400 rpm quite frequently. The engine has a cast crank that I had balanced when I first assembled it six years ago, the blower is newer addition. The engine is still holding together and running strong. If I can beat on mine for six years then a cast crank for your application will probbaly be fine.
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Old 07-08-2006, 11:29 PM
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A stock chevy crank will take at least 450 hp in a street motor if you dont put it on the bottle. Use flat top pistons, stock rods with arp rod bolts.This should run just fine with good power.
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Old 07-09-2006, 12:05 AM
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Also and im not sure because im not to familiar with vortec heads but isn't there issues with the amount of lift of the cam? will it create a bind? again im new to all of this but i think there is a problem
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Old 07-09-2006, 12:16 AM
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You got a leaky spark tube...
 
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Yes, Scoggin Dickey lists the stock springs as being good to .450" lift. Anything over that you either have to buy the upgraded heads or have a set modified for the greater lift. Also, there are new "Bowtie" Vortecs that come in 175 and 206 cc intake runners. Scoggin Dickey sells the modified "original" Vortecs as well as the newer Bowtie versions. Summit Racing sells both versions as well and lists the large port versions as being good to .530" lift.
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Old 07-09-2006, 10:31 AM
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I had a stock crank stock rods and stock rod bolts in my 355, it saw 6000+ RPM all the time and they never had any problems. I would recommend some better rod bolts though. Below is the Scoggin dickey kit that I would recommend.

http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2172...PM-Air-Gap.htm

Adam
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Old 07-09-2006, 02:25 PM
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Wow guys, thanks alot for all the info. I'm going to read it all over again and write back a more meaningful response, when i'm not at work.

But, is there a situation with the heads and cam? If so, does anyone think they can explain it to me? (I'm brand spankin new to this engine thing)

I'm sure i'll have other questions tonight, thanks alot guys.

-Steve-
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Old 07-09-2006, 03:01 PM
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Once you read this thread again you'll catch it. But just in case you dont...you do have to be careful with using Vortec heads and lift figures over about .450" lift. Make sure you either buy the Vortec heads already modified to accept the higher lift numbers like those you originally listed or have a set modified to allow for the added lift. You should also tap them for screw in rocker studs if this hasn't been done already.
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Old 07-09-2006, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazin72
Once you read this thread again you'll catch it. But just in case you dont...you do have to be careful with using Vortec heads and lift figures over about .450" lift. Make sure you either buy the Vortec heads already modified to accept the higher lift numbers like those you originally listed or have a set modified to allow for the added lift. You should also tap them for screw in rocker studs if this hasn't been done already.

Just buy the RHS replacement heads. They already have the proper modifications, and they are heavier duty.


Brian
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Old 07-10-2006, 11:15 AM
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I was talking to an older gentleman that happened to pull next to me in the parking lot with the same car, and his suggestion, was once I get a block, to bring them and the heads I want to use to a machine shop and tell them what compression ratio I want, and let them suggest pistons to accomplish that, based on the work they have to do to the block. (Decking, boring, stuff like that)

Is this a good idea? With my limited knowledge, everyone I ask is being so helpfull, but im being pulled in so many different directions, maybe leaving it up to the people that are working on my block is best?

Thanks
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