Help - Family car problem - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Suspension - Brakes - Steering
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 07:23 AM
Irelands child's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Ford engine specifications Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 4,917
Wiki Edits: 8

Thanks: 15
Thanked 207 Times in 187 Posts
Help - Family car problem

I need some more brain power at work for me

I put new Hawk ceramic brakes and Brembo rotors on our '03 Escape -

While I had absolutely no problems with the installation and the brakes are very much better then the OEM equipment, the vehicle has been plagued with what I have to describe as a less than great pedal. I have bled them on the off chance that I may have introduced a bit of air in the lines when I retracted the caliper pistons and no air was expelled. To the best of my knowledge there is no external indicator on the proportioning valve and no check brakes dash light has come on. I cannot imagine that the MC is damaged, but stranger things have happened. So with that being said, is there something I have overlooked?

Dave

    Advertisement
__________________
Irelands child
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 07:48 AM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Wheelbase database Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,569
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 6
Thanked 156 Times in 143 Posts
New brake pads, especially high performance ones, need to "bed in". Braking feel usually improves over the first 500 miles or so. Also, some high perf brake pads are designed to work best when the pads are hot and have noticeably less braking force when the pads are cold.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 07:58 AM
Irelands child's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Ford engine specifications Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 4,917
Wiki Edits: 8

Thanks: 15
Thanked 207 Times in 187 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
New brake pads, especially high performance ones, need to "bed in". Braking feel usually improves over the first 500 miles or so. Also, some high perf brake pads are designed to work best when the pads are hot and have noticeably less braking force when the pads are cold.
These pads (and rotors) were bedded in exactly how Hawk and Brembo recommended then "babied" for several more several more similar heat/cool cycles. They have about 2500 miles on them now after a 1400 mile trip this past weekent to VA. and stop beautifully - except for the additional 2-3" of pedal throw. This is at least 2X more than the OEMs - which is why I'm concerned that the MC is having some problems. The pedal is not soft - just way too much free play .

Dave
__________________
Irelands child
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 08:24 AM
Chopt 48's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Toppenish, washington
Posts: 452
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Are you able to pump up the pedal? When sitting still, If you pump the pedal slowly will it come up a measurable amount? That would indicate air in the system.
I'm not sure if that car has disk or drum on the back. If it has drum are the rear brakes adjusted correctly?
There are usually one of two reasons for a master cylinder being bad. One is leaking. The other is bypassing where it leaks internally and the pedal will slowly drop when holding normal pressure on it. Both are cause for replacement.

One more thing, some systems are inherently difficult to bleed an take special measures. You might check to see if there is preferred method of bleeding your system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2007, 07:39 AM
Irelands child's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Ford engine specifications Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 4,917
Wiki Edits: 8

Thanks: 15
Thanked 207 Times in 187 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopt 48
Are you able to pump up the pedal? When sitting still, If you pump the pedal slowly will it come up a measurable amount? That would indicate air in the system.
I'm not sure if that car has disk or drum on the back. If it has drum are the rear brakes adjusted correctly?
There are usually one of two reasons for a master cylinder being bad. One is leaking. The other is bypassing where it leaks internally and the pedal will slowly drop when holding normal pressure on it. Both are cause for replacement.

One more thing, some systems are inherently difficult to bleed an take special measures. You might check to see if there is preferred method of bleeding your system.
The pedal pumps and then tends to drop a bit which is one of my indicators of a MC that has an internal problem. The rears appear to be adjusted correctly.

Just for yuks, I am going to try bleeding one more time. There should be absolutely no reason for air in the line as the bleeders were never opened prior to my initial bleed a few days after the pad/rotor installation.
Dave
__________________
Irelands child
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2007, 01:26 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Yackandandah.Australia.
Age: 52
Posts: 641
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If you have air in the system it's unlikely the pedal will 'pump up'. Generally if you can pump up the brakes then shoes need adjusting. Is it a drum rear application?
I've had aftermarket pads that had thin backing plates which flexed and gave a poor pedal. Some calipers flex so much ( like my 96 Holden Statesman) that they give a poor pedal.
As this has only become a problem since the brake change, I'm guessing one of four causes.
1 - pad flex.
2 - pumping the pedal too hard to seat the piston can cause m/cyl failure ( it does on 72/78 local Falcons and w202/210 M/Benzs) - cracked piston in m/c.
3- Rusty caliper piston (NY salt) has 'rolled' the seal and introduced air.
4 - Rusty caliper slides are causing the caliper to '****' or stick at an angle.

As I said earlier, air won't pump up. So I'm leaning towards 1 or 2.
Ian.
PS. The word that was deleted describes the way some things can sit out of alignment, it is also the name given to a male gamebird or an important part of the male anatomy. If I'd wished to be profane I would have been far more creative.

Last edited by IanRiordan; 02-22-2007 at 01:32 AM. Reason: some words don't come up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2007, 05:09 AM
poncho62's Avatar
Out of the Loop Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Streetbeasts links
Last journal entry: at car show
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hanover, Ontario, Canada
Age: 62
Posts: 16,902
Wiki Edits: 5

Thanks: 21
Thanked 276 Times in 220 Posts
When you pushed the caliper pistons back in, did you loosen the bleeders. Maybe, if you didn't the MC doesn't like that much reverse flow and popped an internal seal........just a guess.
__________________
Ontario Rodders

Budget RVs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Suspension - Brakes - Steering posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
family car wckd_1 Engine 6 10-22-2006 05:52 PM
It's all in the details... Nightfire Hotrodders' Lounge 18 09-16-2006 09:53 PM
Buyer Beware................... poncho62 Hotrodders' Lounge 10 05-19-2005 09:40 PM
Cavalier Starting Problem...help about to light car on fire oldschoolrods Electrical 1 08-05-2004 09:46 PM
i hope i'm posting this right 1992 Lincoln Town Car AODE tranny problem maglinvinn Transmission - Rearend 1 04-25-2003 02:47 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.