Opinion wanted my friends. I just disagreed with my good bud, Helrazr3 in the Bay State on welding. He subscibes to the butt weld approach. Get the panel as tight as a fit as possible and weld it. I like the over lap idea. I either drill holes along the edge and use them like spot welds or I use a joggling plyers to create an indented lip.
What's a choosy mutha to do?
What do YOU do :(
09-03-2002 12:25 PM
I teach welding for the USAF. Technique in this case doesn't really matter. If you're good at butt welding do it, if not, joggled lap welding is more forgiving and easier. Also depends on what you're welding with. Vertical or horizontal butt welds with a oxy/acetylene torch are a pain in the butt! ;>
The only possible disadvantage to the jogggled lap is that you have an exposed edge inside that could rust or trap dirt and such insdie (which leads to rust) if the joggled part is to big.
I'm not an expert welder, but am familiar with the techniques. I just have to be good enough to show the students what to do (and NOT to do). There are some real pros here at the school that have been welding much longer than I. I ask them things all the time, and get them to do any delicate work. Got to know your own limitations!
4 Jaw Chuck
09-03-2002 01:51 PM
A lap weld is easier to do and more forgiving especially when your cut line is not perfectly matched. Personally I like a butt just because when your done it can be impossible to tell a repair was made particularily if you grind both sides. I Tig weld all body pieces so a butt weld is a piece of cake, kinda like doing a zipper up...almost no filler wire required if you do it right. No doubt a butt weld is more work but if perfection is what you seek it is the best looking and more durable from an environmental exposure point of view. To make it easy drill holes for Cleco fasteners and back the weld with a thin copper strip full length (using the Cleco's to hold it all together) to help avoid distortion, a wet rag works too.
BTW I am certified for SMAW all positions and as of last thursday also GTAW and GMAW in stainless, steel, aluminum and also titanium up to 1/8 inch. Yea! I passed. :)
09-03-2002 02:26 PM
4-Jaw, I'm impressed! I'm certified in gluing metal together so it doesn't fall apart too soon, in all positions that slag is guaranteed to drop in my tennis shoes or my ears, on all machines that don't cost over $200.
09-03-2002 02:53 PM
I think both are good depending on situation, when i was an apprentice about 20 or so years ago a Jaguar XJ6 came in with rear 1/4 panel damage, when examining the new panel which had part of the rear screen surround, fuel filler & most of the arch into the door shut i was a little dazed.
Once all the parts were stripped i was told to hand cut the old panel in half & then the new one in the exact same place, If i made a mistake it would come out of my wages :eek: . Well i did it with a 100% perfect butt joint, not sure how that happened to this day! but to conclude the story the guy dishing out the orders proceeded to gas weld the butt jointed panels with such a fine weld & no distortion there was minimal re finishing to do. A good lesson was learn't that day & boy did that save some labour time, the same guy taught me how to gas weld something you never forget like riding a bike! :D
4 Jaw Chuck
09-03-2002 03:38 PM
Hey Willy, that was one grueling test day let me tell you. 10 hours solid no breaks. I was so soaked from sweat at the end that my underwear was stuck to my butt. :p Actually the Tig test was easier for me than the stick test was, I like to be able to see my welds and with stick it's all kinda invisible until you chip the slag off. At least this time I was a little more relaxed than when I did the stick test.
BTW I have a scar on my left knee from a blob of slag that fell on my leg once and since I was holding a 300 pd 10 inch schedule 120 pipe on a ladder there was no stopping, I just gritted my teeth and beared the pain while I finished the pass :mad: Ohhh did that ever hurt. I'll never forget that smell, if you think burnt hair smells bad....yuck. I had no choice the x-ray tech was watching and if I made a mistake he would have made me do the whole thing over again. I need a drink. <img src="graemlins/drunk.gif" border="0" alt="[drunk]" />
09-03-2002 03:47 PM
Pitty on the person doing your laundry, lol. :D
09-03-2002 09:01 PM
I know about the certification tests. I have welder friends in the oil fields and we do a lot of steam injection oil recovery here so the welders need to be x-ray certified for all positions on SC80, J and K grades, and extra strong grades for steam service. Not as sexy as the stuff you are certified in but to get an x-ray weld lying on your back in a muddy ditch at mid-night when it is windy and 25deg takes a pretty good welder!
I'll stick w/ my two semesters of welding classes in jr. college and 30 yrs of goofing around in my shop thank you!
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09-04-2002 06:05 AM
Willys, you are a true motorhead. To know of the slag in shoe is common, but slag in ear. been there, done that, crapped on my t-shirt. The real rush is you hear it buning your flesh as well! :o
09-04-2002 06:08 AM
Farna, that was my AFSC while part of Uncle Sugars Flying Circus! Started out as tin bender, hit Master Technician for SAC in Alaska, then Welder/Tin man for ATC in Lubbock, and finished as Parachutte packer and sewing boy! The only things left were cooking and being a cop for we color imparred!
09-04-2002 06:24 PM
Done both and both work good depending on the situation.welded on manym a qtr pnl using abutt with a backing plate. works good cause you can plug weld and weld the edges.