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Old 10-16-2008, 10:10 AM
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Help!!!! I need 350 advice

I have a 92 350 chevy that i want to put in my 89 4x4 truck.i put sealed power .125 pop up pistons in it and it has a zz4 roller cam and lifter setup {474/510 lift and 208/210 duration} I aquired a 95 chevy 350 set of heads and F.I. setup {#14102193} on the heads. Will this all work together and with a stock computor.does anyone know what kind of power it will make if it does work.I spent alot of money on the entire truck and got these heads for nothing so i really want to use them and will be gasket matching and polishing the exhaust ports.Any help is appriceated.

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Old 10-16-2008, 10:19 AM
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The 193 heads are swirl-port. They aren't terrible for your cam, just terrible in general Your cam will be capable of 5500+, but the heads start running out of steam at 3500. The just flow terribly.

The TBI injection is also not any marvel of technology. Many guys (including myself) have picked up power and mileage be swapping back to a Qjet carb from a TBI.

If you really want to up the ante, get some Vortec heads. You're looking at just breaking over the 225 hp mark with your current setup, but with Vortecs you could be topping 300 easy with no torque loss. HP and TQ is in the heads, spend your money there. You've already done an excellent job of selecting a great cam, now find the heads to match. Vortecs are my recommendation - casting numbers end with 906 or 062
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Old 10-16-2008, 10:36 AM
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thanks

I get the vortec advice alot. If i did swap to vortec heads and an aftermarket F.I. intake to match would this all work with my computor.I really like the fuel injection. thanks
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:50 AM
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It wouldn't work with your current EFI, but just get a factory vortec EFI manifold (or even better, the marine version) and all the wiring and computer that goes with it.

You can stick with TBI if you want, but you'll have to rethink everything. The TBI parts were well-matched for the 190 hp outputs they made. Trying to upgrade one or two parts won't cut it. You'll have a big mismatch.

Head flow is tiny, cams are tiny, compression is tiny, wet flow through the TB is about 390 cfm. You've already upped the compression with your domed pistons, so you're kinda backed into a corner there.

I might suggest older smogger heads with 76cc chambers. They'll flow much better than the 193s (not as well as Vortecs) and you can hog out the center holes on your TBI intake to fit the older heads. You'll have to burn a new chip for the computer with that cam, and you'll have to take the timing curve into consideration. Domes are much less detonation tolerant, but require a little more ignition lead since they slow down the flame front. Plan on premium pump gas at 9.5:1 with domes of that size.

If you haven't assembled the shortblock yet, ditch those domes. Flat tops with Vortecs makes about 9.5:1 and you can run all day with 87 octane with the more efficient chamber.

Power is in the heads, and the Vortecs really are that good for street torque and HP. Spending $500 on a set of heads and an intake with the computer is really going to pay off big time. I'm not knocking your combo - it will run fine, but for a little more money you can get a much better sorted-out combo that will really put a grin on your face.

In a nutshell (with your zz4 cam):
Those domes with 76cc smogger heads = about 9.5:1, 275-ish hp, and premium pump gas
Those domes with 64cc smogger heads = about 10.5:1, 280-ish hp, and race fuel only.
flat tops with 64cc Vortecs = about 9.5:1, 300-ish hp, and 87 octane.
Your current suggested combo = about 9.5:1, 240-ish hp, and at least 89 octane, maybe premium, but you'll have a notable mismatch with the cam and heads. Heads are good for idle-4000, cam will be good for 5500 and more

Last edited by curtis73; 10-16-2008 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50BLUECHEVY
I have a 92 350 chevy that i want to put in my 89 4x4 truck.i put sealed power .125 pop up pistons in it and it has a zz4 roller cam and lifter setup {474/510 lift and 208/210 duration} I aquired a 95 chevy 350 set of heads and F.I. setup {#14102193} on the heads. Will this all work together and with a stock computor.does anyone know what kind of power it will make if it does work.I spent alot of money on the entire truck and got these heads for nothing so i really want to use them and will be gasket matching and polishing the exhaust ports.Any help is appriceated.
This is not a good combination of parts for how it'll be used. Specifically the combination pistons, the 193 heads, the ZZ4 cam, and TBI injection.

Lets dispose of the heads first, the 193s are Swirl Ports, they're intended for excellent fuel atomization and swirl formation in a low RPM engine. They run out of breathing room pretty early, they are curving over by 3500 RPM and are done by 4500. Add to that, they have fairly small combustion chambers which with pop up pistons will push the compression very high, well beyond the capability of high octane unleaded pump fuel.

The pistons with a pop up push the compression pretty high; with a 58 to 64 cc chamber the compression will range from the low 12s to the low 11s. Most modern heads, of which the Swirl Ports are part of, have small combustion chambers. So with this dome, modern tight chamber fastburn type heads are off the table as a choice on an engine that uses premium pump fuel. You've either got to replace the piston with something that keeps the compression in the 9s for premium fuel or go with a large chamber head of 76 to 78ccs and a thick gasket. The down side of this is that large chamber heads aren't as efficient resulting in lower fuel economy, less power, and high emissions. Having to go to a thick (.050ish inch) gasket reduces the squish/quench function of the head increasing the tendency to detonation and pre-ignition. Not that it can't be done like this, but it's introducing a lack of efficiency and the potential for greater detonation risk. With EFI, the detonation sensor will read any detonation and pull the timing back till it stops the detonation, this kills power and increases fuel consumption but keeps from melting pistons.

Your truck has TBI injection. This is pretty sensitive to engine vacuum, the cam you've selected is getting on to the upper limit that can be used without having professional intervention at a systems level from some outfit like TPIS. It might, however, just slide by with a reprogrammed chip and a variable pressure relief that will give you some final tuning space. Custom chips run around 3-400 dollars, cheap performance chips will not do as they are intended to improve the stock TBI engine and you're a long way from that. What the cam is doing is changing all the fuel and timing map reference points in relation to the information being received from the sensors. The new chip programs the new relationship of reference data to the location on the fuel and timing maps that the computer goes to for schedules to be used at any moment.

Some urls for chips:
http://www.fastchip.com/

http://www.tbichips.com/

http://www.hypertech-inc.com/

http://www.superchips.com/

http://www.tpis.com/



The stock TBI is rated about 400 CFM, it will run out of flow before the cam runs out of rev ability. The simple solution is a 670 CFM flow unit from Holley or off a 454 engine.
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Old 10-16-2008, 03:03 PM
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Your Help is appreciated

Thanks guys,I think what i've decided is to take the pop up's out and install a set of two valve relief flattops that i have. also i'm now in the market for a set of vortecs to put on it and an intake to put on a carb. instead of the fuel injection.it sounds like to me this will be a good combo.does anyone out there need a rebuilt set of 193's?
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Old 10-16-2008, 04:44 PM
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I think you'll be VERY happy. Good luck keeping the grin off your face and the tires from melting
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