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Old 04-01-2006, 07:11 PM
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HELP..I wrecked the wifes KIA

Hey everyone i need some advice on how to fix the front in of a kia sportage.Its a 2000 model that jumped out of gear and rolled over a hill into a tree.It hit on the passanger side head light and pushed all that in.I have very little body experance but im going to fix it anyways.So ive got the fender and hood bumper ect,off.My problem is what is the best way to take out the inner fender.I dont know if its best to cut it off and weld another one on or to drill out the spot welds and try and get the hole thing off from the firewall up.Any advice would be greatly apprecated.Thanks to all who takes the time to read this.

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Old 04-01-2006, 07:20 PM
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is it still under the powertrain warranty?, if you could relate it jumping out of gear to rolling down the hill, you could turn it all in on warranty it would seem. Sportage's do have tranny problems. Drill out the welds, a new factory peice will go back in just like the old came out.
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Old 04-01-2006, 07:37 PM
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Do you know the difference between a "dent" and a "ding"? That's easy, who is reponsible for it!

"Honey, ah, ah, Honey? I put a "ding" in your car."

"Some BASTARD put a "DENT" in my car!"


I don't have the whole procedure in my head but lets talk about a few things. First off, I assume you are planning on replacing the rad baffle and upper tie bar at the very least, right? It sounds like that is where you are at, I am not saying you need to, but it sounds like that is where you are at.

I have done similar repairs MANY times, though not on this particular car (only once as I remember) they are pretty similar in design to other SUV full frame cars (I believe that Kia is a full frame, right?).

So the frame is ok, the bumper, the head lamp, rad baffle it is mounted to , upper tie bar (that runs from fender to fender and holds the top of the radiator) are toast, and it sounds like the inner fender is damaged. That inner fender is one piece and does NOT have a suspension strut mount or any suspension componants mounted to it right? That is how I remember it. If that is the case, replacing the whole thing isn't that big of a deal. If it has a strut (spring and shock assy) mounted to it, I say look for a way out of replacing it. It likely mounts to the firewall with a folded down (or up but unlikely) flange and is spot welded to the it. The problem with this is you need to remove all the carpet, likely the A/C evaporator and a dozen or so other things with miles of wires and interior plastic pieces, not a pretty picture.

If this is the case, you can slice the inner fender off about an inch from the firewall leaving that inch long piece with the flange welded on the firewall. You then cut off the flange from the new piece and plug weld it to the piece you left on the firewall. Doing this, you don't have to remove all the inner pieces.

If the inner fender has a shock tower there is usually a shorter piece from the tower forward that can be replaced leaving the tower and rear piece intact. It is HIGHLY unlikely that the tower is damaged in this type of hit. It isn't usually the case, but some inner fenders will be of two pieces even if it has no shock tower, so check it out.

Now, looking at that inner fender, does it need changing at all? I have found that even pretty bad ones will fall back in place by pulling it out to where it belongs. The kinks come out pretty easy, because they went in pretty easy. The inner fender being very curved, bends easy. If you had a piece of tubing that was bent in a U shape, it would be very easy to bend if you pushed the two ends together right? If it were a straight piece of tubing, you would be hard pressed to bend it by pushing on each end of the tube.

So, take a good look at it and see if you can repair the inner fender before you start hacking it out. And yes, if you do replace it, you simply drill out the spot welds effectively "unbolting" it.

Brian
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Old 04-01-2006, 08:36 PM
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Thanks matt167 and martinsr for answering.Let me tell ya how this happend.I backed out of the garade one morning in my truck and forgot my wife was home that morning and bumped in to it.Never made a mark on the truck and just pushed in the rubber bumper on the car, i seen it start to move and thought well it will stop in a moment,pulled up got out and it took off through the yard and finally hit a tree about 6 inches a round about 20 feet before my naibors garage.This is a automatic no keys in it the doors locked and everything.When i went to get it i had to go get the keys and put my foot on the break like normall to get it out of park.Beats anything ive everseen.Anyways it was enough for the insurance to total it so i bought it back and am trying to fix it.
Martinsr you called something the Rad baffle is that the top brace that runs from the firewall to the core support?Thats the one i need to fix.The wheelwell It self only has a small dent that i am sure i can pull out.So if i drill all the spot welds out that connects it to the wheelwell and the fire wall that piece should come out right?I want to thank you all once again like i said ive not had much experiance with the body work but im going to do it anyways ive always had a intrest in it.Not to sound conceited at all but i can usally look at something and study on it long enough and with help from knowelegabe people do a good enough job for my self. Why pay people to do it when you can do it yourself and have fun and learn something is the way i always seen it.Thanks once again.
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Old 04-01-2006, 08:37 PM
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I think if you need advise on that type of repair, you need to post some photos of the damage. That way you can get accurate damage analysis and advise.

Aaron
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Old 04-01-2006, 09:51 PM
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Aaron is right, photos would be a big help. The "baffle" is the side piece right behind the headlamp. It would have to be damaged to have damaged the inner fender, and replacing the inner fender most likely requres replacing the baffle. The inner fender will sometimes just have a fold at the top, this sounds is the part that you are talking about, from the "core support" (radiator support) to the firewall that the fender bolts to...that is the "inner fender" and "upper rail" sometimes is what the support along the top where the fender actually bolts.

The "radiator support" is made up of the "upper tie bar" that goes from the front of the left fender to the front of the right, holding the rad and hood latch. The left and right "baffle" right behind the head lamp, and the lower "tie bar" that connects the two baffles together below the rad.

Brian

Last edited by MARTINSR; 04-02-2006 at 11:10 AM. Reason: Spelling like a third grader. :)
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Old 04-02-2006, 07:12 AM
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There are a couple of things to consider on this problem. First, as Brian said, If it was hit in the headlight area, to damage the inner fender, the baffle would most likely have to be damaged. That means, that it will need to be replaced or repaired for the headlight to sit properly. Another thing to consider is the safety factor. The front ends of the newer cars have what are called "crumple zones" for safety. I don't recall working on that particular model, but you need to watch for the crumple zones. You want to maintain the safety built into the vehicle. You don't want it weaker, or even stronger than it was designed for. Either one will effect the safety of the passenger compartment.

Post some photos and you will get better information on the proper way to attack this problem.

Aaron
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Old 04-02-2006, 11:12 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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Tomorrow I'll be able to get out the book and see what is entailed in this repair. I know we have a Kia Sportage on the lot but I think it is a later model. We will see on.....on....crap...Monday (this weekend is a nice lazy one).

Brian
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Old 04-04-2006, 01:12 AM
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Thanks to everyone for helping me with this.I got the inner fender out.I drilled it out from the spot welds at the fire wall and from the wheel well and all the other stuff.I am going to try and find the front end off of one at a salvage yard and take all the stuff off it and use.I do have one more thing i was wondering well probley alot before i get done but one for now.I have consider cutting the core support in the middle and welding the other one on cause it is not hurt from there over and i dont see any type of safety function that it has.It would also save me from having to remove the other fender and drilling out the spot weld to get it off.Does this sound alright or are there other concerns im not seeing that would make it better to replace all of it?
If i can borrow me a camera i will post some pictures of it.Also by replacing the hole inner fender should keep the safety aspect in good shape shouldnt it?
I figured that way ill have all my crumple zones and stuff back in it.
THANKS
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Old 04-04-2006, 04:44 AM
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First, I would never have cut it apart until I had the part that was replacing it. To remove a damaged part that is bolted on, is one thing. To remove a welded on part is another.

As for cutting the radiator support in the middle, just to save a little work, that is a NO-NO. As Brian has pointed out, the radiator support is usually made up of atleast 4 pieces, with one being the upper tie bar. Normally, the upper tie bar is one piece that goes from one side to the other. It should be replaced as one piece. If it fails, it can be a safety thing, as many of them hold the latch in place. I saw many times, when I was an insurance adjuster, where people tried that. The hood comes open and hits the windshield and roof. Besides the obvious body damage, the driver can't see when that happens.

As an added note. You may have additional damage that you are not aware of, depending on how it was hit. The front inner structure may be knocked over, where it isn't square. Did you check the measurements before you cut it apart? It doesn't take much of an impact to "diamond" the front inner structure on a unibody when they are hit. One of the biggest parts of a repair like you have described is evaluating the damage, and repairs necessary. It isn't just cutting a vehicle apart and welding new parts on.

Aaron
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Old 04-04-2006, 12:02 PM
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The upper tie bar on this vehicle unbolts from the core support on my kia.I also will be cutting it to where i leave the section that the bottom of the hood latch bolts to in tack.DO you still see a problem with doing it that way?
thanks.
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Old 04-04-2006, 08:32 PM
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I looked in a crash manual today for that vehicle. It shows that the upper tie bar is actually 3 pieces. A center piece, and 2 upper pieces, one on each side. If that is the case, you should be able to replace the damaged side and center ones without having to remove the fender. I would not try to cut and weld a piece of the upper tie bar in anyplace that there is not a natural joint. PERIOD! If it is necessary to remove the undamaged fender to replace the thing, then just take it off. You have already cut out a welded panel on the other side. I really don't see what the big deal is removing a bolt on fender. It's probably going to be harder locating the correct parts to repair the rest.

Aaron
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Old 04-05-2006, 01:04 AM
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Ok i have decided to take the hole core support out.I found another front end at a salvage yard today and im going tomorrow to get it that is if i can find out for sure tonight if it will work.They where not sure of the year he said he was sure it was around a 2000 model as mine is but this around stuff has me worried.I dont know what years was the same and am going to try and look around tonight and find out.Hopefully one of you will know.
Im going to have them cut it out from the firewall on the passenger side and about mid way up the inner fender on the drivers side.So when i get it it will be a solid piece with the right side inner fender and the core support all in one.Im thinking this should allow me to remove the spot weld from the wheel well and the inner fender and should set into place and weld back up to my wheel well and inner fender.Does this sound right to you?
I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help me out.It makes a world of diffrence having Knowlegeable people to help guide me though this.
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Old 04-05-2006, 05:03 AM
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I am not sure what years they were built. I believe that our crash manual showed the same parts for 99-2002, but not really sure. They should be able to check an "interchange" manual and tell if they are the same.

Aaron
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Old 04-05-2006, 09:27 AM
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That certainly sounds like the best way to go. Yeah, as I remember there was no difference in that support in the book from 98-02, but I will check today.

By the way, the measurements are 1258 mm from the right front fender bolt to the left, measured to the center of the bolt hole.

Cross measuring, 1452 mm from the right rear fender bolt to the left front. (and visy versy )

The length from the rear fender bolt to the front fender bolt on either side is 696 mm,

Brian
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