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Old 12-08-2011, 01:25 PM
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HELP A MARINE MAKE IS SLOW 69 gto a fast one ...pontiac 400 build

hey guys young guy here with a 69 gto with a 1973 pontiac 400 stock except intake and HEI ignition, with a turbo 400 trans


ok the goal is a daily driver but i want around 400 horse ...
iv got two sets of heads 6x-4 heads and 428 number 16 heads.


can anyone give me a recipe for my build .... such as if i go the milling the head way how much do i zero deck the block too and how much do i shave the heads.

pretty much getting the rebuild kit from summit



thank you .

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Old 12-08-2011, 04:42 PM
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Hey there

I'm gearing up for a Pontiac 400 build also with the same heads (16's) and I posted a thread about it here, got lots of good info...here is the link, hope it helps...

Necessary Machine Work for Pontiac 400?
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Old 12-08-2011, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corybuice
hey guys young guy here with a 69 gto with a 1973 pontiac 400 stock except intake and HEI ignition, with a turbo 400 trans


ok the goal is a daily driver but i want around 400 horse ...
iv got two sets of heads 6x-4 heads and 428 number 16 heads.


can anyone give me a recipe for my build .... such as if i go the milling the head way how much do i zero deck the block too and how much do i shave the heads.

pretty much getting the rebuild kit from summit



thank you .
please ask questions , do some research around here BEFORE SPENDING ANY MONEY if you want to get close to 400 horses. It is totally do able, but you have to get your build figured out first so ....
If you want to, you can post what you think you might want to get and a few of us will clue you in on what works and what doesnt.
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Old 12-08-2011, 05:36 PM
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Here are a couple of Pontiac specific engine builders on your side of the country. I wouldn't hesitate using any of them for parts, work, or advice! Jim, of CVMS does mostly Pontiacs, but others also. He is also a member here and goes by Mr P-Body

http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/
https://sites.google.com/site/ksmsinc/
http://www.centralvirginiamachine.com/

Last edited by WDCreech; 12-08-2011 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 12-08-2011, 06:39 PM
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well

well i want to use the 16 heads ....but i want to run pump gas so that means dish pistons ,,,,the thing is i have no idea what size to use ....to achive the 9 to1 CR that i am shooting for ....
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Old 12-08-2011, 06:49 PM
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There are many posts on this forum for Pontiac engine builds, you can do a search for more. I haven't posted this info in a week or two, so:

SOME SITES FOR PONTIAC PARTS & INFO:

Ken “Ace” Brewer @ Pacific Performance Racing- http://www.pacificperformanceracing.com/index.html

Butler Performance- http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/

SD Performance- http://www.sdperformance.com/

Performance Years Pontiac (One of the largest sites)- http://www.performanceyears.com/

Ken’s Speed & Machine Shop- http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiac...chineshop.html

Nunzi- http://www.nunzi-pontiac-expert.com/

Fulper* aka Rock & Roll Engineering- http://pontiacpower.com/
*Two of the Pontiac guys here have warned about this guy. I have had no dealings w/him personally, so have no comment either way- except to say his claims and rhetoric is definitely "over the top".

SD Performance- http://www.sdperformance.com/

Tin Indian Performance http://www.tinindianperformance.com/

Kauffman Racing Equipment- http://www.krepower.com/

All Pontiac.com- http://www.allpontiac.com/

Wallace Racing- http://www.wallaceracing.com/


A FEW SELECTED ARTICLES BY JIM HAND (there are many more)

Jim Hand “BUILDING A STRONG STREET MACHINE”@ Classic Firebird
http://www.classicfirebird.com/hand/hand.html

Hand on Cams
http://www.dapa.org/jhpages/pontiac-cams.htm’

Hand on ROCKER RATIOS/MODS
http://www.pontiacstreetperformance....ockerArms.html


PONTIAC MAGS ON THE WEB:

Pontiac Street Performance
http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/

Pontiac Street Performance Featured Cars & Engines
http://www.pontiacstreetperformance....turedcars.html

Pontiac Street Performance Tech Articles
http://www.pontiacstreetperformance....harticles.html

High Performance Pontiac
http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/

Also, there have been numerous threads here- hit the "Search" for more info.

Finally, verify everything. Pontiac lore is flat ATE UP w/bad, misleading and/or incomplete information.

Good luck.
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:31 PM
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Use this link to figure out CR.
http://www.projectpontiac.com/ppsite...tio-calculator

A valve job will increase chamber volume so measure chamber volume after a valve job is performed.

If you are going to mill the heads and\or change the cam to a high lift one you will probably have to change push rod length. You will find these links useful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqx8C...eature=related
http://www.compcams.com/Products/CC-...rods%27-0.aspx
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Pontiac
http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiacdude428/HeadID.html
http://www.spottsperformance.com/head%20id
http://www.pontiacstreetperformance....p/rockers.html

If you are going to run headers install a starter solenoid heat shield first rather than after the headers are installed. Alternatively you can install a remote solenoid to get away from "heat soaked starter".

Go Army
BT

Last edited by beertracker; 12-08-2011 at 07:34 PM. Reason: added a link
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corybuice
well i want to use the 16 heads ....but i want to run pump gas so that means dish pistons ,,,,the thing is i have no idea what size to use ....to achive the 9 to1 CR that i am shooting for ....

This is the best piston I found so far for acheiving that with the 72cc heads (#16's)

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/kb_car/p...tails&P_id=194

With a deck height of .002, and a .039 head gasket, I get a static compression ratio of 9.5:1, and a dynamic compression ratio with the cam I chose of 7.6:1., with a quench of .041. The piston is a D-cup cut, so it has a flat pad behind the valve releifs, which will aid quite a bit in creating combustion chamber turbulence.

This is the only piston I've found so far that will give me a compression ratio below 10:1 with a 1.72 compression height using my 72cc heads. There are shorter pistons, but then, as it was pointed out to me by some of the folks here, I'll run into quench issues unless I use custom thin head gaskets.

Last edited by MJS69; 12-08-2011 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:21 PM
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Cory, I recomend that you get hold of the supplier of your choice and ask them for help in deciding on what you will need. Jim Butler, of Butler Performance, may talk your ear off about Pontiacs, and Ken Keefer, of Ken's Speed and Machine, as well as Jim Leher, of CVMS, know how to make Pontiacs perform. Places like Summit sell parts, they don't specialize in any particular type of engine.

Bill

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Old 12-09-2011, 11:47 AM
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Thanks for the kind words, Bill!

400 HP is a piece of pie... The Speed Pro L2262F-xxx is a good piston, though a bit heavy. Very thick head, so turning a "simple dish" is no problem, we do it all the time. A dish 3 1/2" in diameter, .100" deep will get you under 9.3:1. We've seen significant issues using the KB hyper-eutectics. Unless ring gap instructions are followed exactly, the piston WILL fail. We (CVMS) don't use them.

No matter WHAT you build, be sure to put new forged connecting rods in it.

Once compression is "down", Comp XE grinds are very effective. Flat hydraulkics are "cheapest", but flat solids offer "most bang for the buck".

Get Jim Hand's book "How to Build Max-performance Pontiac V8s" published by SA Designs. It is the most current "study" of the ol' Injun. It's 7 years old now, so some things have changed, but the history and fundementals are still the same.

The Pontiac is "back", in that there are plenty of good aftermarket performance parts available today that weren't just a few years ago. Up to 500 CID, the Pontiac can rival ANY other V8 for power and durability. The're particularly suited to street applications because they make "big" power at low revs.

Jim
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Old 12-09-2011, 12:14 PM
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I would recomend starting by doing research at pontiacstreetperformance.com. There's a ton of good information in their technical articles. After reading through those you'll have a good feel for Pontiacs and what they respond to. Some of the factory designs for Pontiacs are pretty good,such as the intakes, some heads and their Quadrajets. Building so your compression is around 9.5 to 1 will be the most important change. A more agressive distributor advance curve helps a lot and if you can spend money making the rotating assemblies lighter.
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:05 PM
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you guys are awsome so much info to take in....

lol i feel so proud being a Pontiac owner as opposed to my dad Chevy guy old school Pontiac lover but i drive new school chevy ......ill look up those pistions any size recommendations on the size of the dish...
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:07 PM
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so i have to used a dish pistion if so which size ???
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:31 PM
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try to look at the summit list of sizes cause thats what im trying to use ..

summit sizes and brand s so keith black a no go ???? wow
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:35 PM
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ok will these work...

http://www.summitracing.com/search/?...pistons&page=2 which one??/lol
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